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  • "Netty" started this thread

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51

Friday, September 11th 2009, 10:54am

Thanks ladies.

As heatbreaking as it is, something has got to give. Spoke with my helath visitor twice this week and she thinks I need to start giving him formula so we are trying a combination of b'feeding and formula. As I'm so run down my milk is just not good enough quality to keep M satisfied. We have given him some forumla this week in the evening and his weight has increased by quite a bit, he was on the 2nd percentile before.

So so so so so upsetting to watch dh give him some formula but got to do what's best for M and for us as a family and a happy healthy baby and mummy is what we all want.
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Friday, September 11th 2009, 11:39am

Quoted

Originally posted by Netty
So so so so so upsetting to watch dh give him some formula but got to do what's best for M and for us as a family and a happy healthy baby and mummy is what we all want.


Oh Netty, I've been there and done that and I feel your pain, BUT he is still getting your breastmilk, AND you really couldn't have tried any harder. Please be proud of yourself for getting this far, so many mums would have just switched straight to formula weeks ago but your little 'un has and is still having all the wonderful bebefits of your boob juice. Now lets hope he can have a mum who is awake enough to enjoy being a mummy too.





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Friday, September 11th 2009, 3:07pm

Sending you a huge hug!

x


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Friday, September 11th 2009, 10:43pm

Netty, do NOT feel bad for this. You've done so much and shown real determination. The girls are right, you ARE breastfeeding!!! So what if you're supplementing a bit? Baby is three months old and ten years ago you would be weaning now!!!

Remember that formula does lead to greater weigh gain because of the ingredients and formula fed babies are usually heavier but heavier doesn't mean better. What I'm trying (badly) to say is that the weight gain isn't a sign that your breastmilk was/is inadequate, it's just often a side effect of formula. Breastfed babies 'do' often gain weight slower than bottlefed babies and that's just the way it is. Please don't feel that it's a sign that your baby wasn't getting enough from you.

You are doing really really well. The things I've learned from being a parent are these .... 'pick your battles' and 'don't sweat the small stuff'. These are facts that will become more and more evident as your baby grows up and in the scheme of things, a couple of bottles aren't the end of the world.

You ARE a breastfeeding Mum and you HAVE done everything possible.





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Sunday, September 13th 2009, 8:49pm

You have now made a choice that suits you and your family you can't do anymore than that, good for you I think you have done really well and should give yourself a pat on the back :smile:

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Sunday, September 13th 2009, 8:54pm

Hey Netty

How are you and your little one getting on? Bells and Chilli have said it all really but I just wanted to say I've been thinking of you!

x


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  • "Netty" started this thread

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57

Monday, September 14th 2009, 12:45pm

Not really sure how I'm getting on to be honest as we've not had a set pattern of what times we have given M some forumla other than when he wakes at about 1- 2am because it's been so hard for me to come to terms with.

My health visitor said that not feeding him during the night won't have a big impact on my supply so I'm confused about what people have said on here to still make sure I do the middle of the night feed.

He had expressed breastmilk at 7pm last night and woke at midnight for a forumla feed thewoke up nearly every hour after midnight absolutely starving again.

The one night we gave him formula at 7pm he slept from 7.30pm until 1.30am and then gave him formula again and he slept from 2am ish until 5am which is the best he's ever done so maybe that's the way to go along with a 1pm lunchtime formula feed as I fed him earlier (for an hour and three quarters) and he was STILL hungry !!!!! He's so active.
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Monday, September 14th 2009, 8:40pm

Netty, it could be that your HV is assuming that at nearly 3 months, your milk supply has become established, and she could be right, babies were once started on solids at this age and still successfully breastfed for months afterwards. However, as you know, your hormone reflexes that stimulate milk production work best at night (proof that God is a man!) so swapping the night time feeds for formula could have a negative effect on your supply. I would say that if you still want the majority of his feeds to be breast milk, then its better to give him formula in the daytime or early evening. However, any breast milk is better than none at all, so maybe you could play this by ear and if he is still feeding all night and you are exhausted, you (or better still someone else) could give the formula at night even if its only a couple of nights a week.

It sounds as if your HV may not be the most knowledgable person about breastfeeding, and its annoying that La Leche League haven't returned your calls. I have personally used the Breastfeeding Network on 0300 100 0212 for advice about what I thought was nipple and ductal thrush and when I spoke to the advisor on the phone, she was fantastic and gave me some really good advice.

As for the coming to terms with it, I don't really know how to do it, my own breastfeeding relationship with DD1 fell apart very early on despite everythign I tried, and I feel guilty even now. However, I can tell you that you will one day be able to look back and feel proud that you put in so much effort when so many mums give up on breastfeeding after the first couple of sleepless nights. The stuff I have from our local breastfeeding support group say that every day makes a difference to your baby, so every day that you have and still do continue giving him breastmilk is a day when he is getting the very best available. Please try to stop beating yourself up about it.





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Monday, September 14th 2009, 10:54pm

Ditto - everything Mrs J said :D

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Tuesday, September 15th 2009, 10:29pm

Hi Netty - sorry to come into this so late. My HV told me I wasn't producing enough milk to feed DD when she was tiny and I remember going through a stage where I was at the end of my tether with BFing, I also has every problem known to new breast feeding mums - mastitus, cracked nipples, blisters, ductal thrush - you name it. For me BFing was agony too but because of family pressure (very pro BFing family) I felt I couldn't give up and so I stuck it out and here I still am, feeding my DD and apart from a rather unexpected problem this last week, the past 18 months of BFing have been really fantastic. I had a rubbish first 6 months and then it all sorted out.

My problems were of course slightly different - I can't say DD wanted to feed as much as your son though I certainly fed every couple of hours during the day back then but usually shorter feeds and only 1 or 2 at the most at night. But there was this stage around 2-4 months where DD was literally chomping at the bit and then screaming and HV said my milk wasn't satisfying her. DD would work herself into a state and then not feed and we were both just exhausted.

I now realise in retrospect that because of a blocked duct DD wasn't getting as much hind milk as she needed to fill her up and so she was hungry but at the time I didn't realise how a feed should be - why would I - I'd never done it before. I started to think she was a very early teether - she had the other teething signs. So I gave her the homeopathic cure Chamomila when she was screaming for a feed and then fed her. It worked instantly and calmed her down. I don't think because she was teething but just because it calms babies.

I'm wondering if its worth you trying it. DD seemed calmer and more easily satisfied after having a sachet of Teetha (from Boots or good health stores) and she fed in a more calm manner and so got more milk. It really sorted out our problems. I still use chamomilla now though I get the soft tablets which literally melt on a baby or child's tongue, from Helios and I get a high 200c dose. Also helps calm babies who don't like going to bed!

Maybe you could try it immediately before feeding him on the most demanding feeds? I know you have the formula taking the edge off now but if you want to keep BFing it might help. I also really recommend BF support groups. They helped me so much - DD's latch was rubbish hence all my nipple problems and pain and her not getting enough milk and I just didn't know. I thought it was just supposed to hurt! But they showed me what was wrong with my latch and helped me teach DD how to relearn it. Its so worth going along an getting that support from a really good BF counsellor.

I love feeding DD - once we got over the horrendous first 6 months it became something so wonderful and intimate and just for us. If she gets hurt or upset it's the instant comfort - I can stop her tears in two second and that's an amazing thing for a mum to be able to do. Don't give up completely unless you are certain it's what you want to do because this may be a phase that passes and you may have the chance to enjoy BFing - so hard to imagine that when you're in your situation I know.

But maybe Chamomila and a really good cranio sacral therapist could make your DS easier to feed and enjoy.

What ever you do long term feel proud you gave him the most wonderful start - all those fantastic antibodies and immunity boosting nutrients.
MC 1997, Ectopic 2006, Tubal infertility, 1st IVF :BFP: [zx098]

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Emilia44" (Sep 15th 2009, 10:32pm)


  • "Netty" started this thread

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Wednesday, September 23rd 2009, 3:38pm

Not been on line for a while as I'm aware that I'm always moaning/been upset over one thing or another so have avoided coming on but think I need an outlet for my frustration etc.

Thanks for your information, I'll look into chamomila.

My local La Leche League contact never got back to me and to be honest I've not really had the time or inclination to call anyone else which may be a mistake but I needed help when I contacted La Leche not a week or so later if that makes sense.

I'm still doing both at the moment but am so run down and exhansted that I'm now on anti-biotics - as DS doesn't sleep at home during the day and I'm a rubbish sleeper (always have been). What I'm feeding him now doesn't even satisfy him for an hour and a half now so I no sooner finish one feed than I'm starting another. DS is getting MORE frustrated with me as there just isn't any milk there sometimes when he's still hungry, have tried expressing at those times and there is literally nothing there. Whenever I do manage to express it's REALLY REALLY watery.

Me and DH are arguing (me having a go at him about anything and everything) because I'm tried and stressing about it all. Part of me wants to still try to do at least one feed a day but I just worry that my milk is so crap now that there is no point and it's unfair to get my DS in such a state when there isn't enough to satisfy him etc .............

We went to our first baby massage class today and despite giving him 4 oz of formula 15 mins before we went out he still screamed for about 40 mins of the 60 min class with hunger !!! Am now dreading the next class and some of it was in the hope that I meet other mums in my area but all I do is moan when they ask how things are going and am nnearly in tears that they won't want to have anything to do with such a moaning minnie like me. Supposed to be starting swimming next wed pm so am dreading that now as well.

Bet I've depressed anyone who reads this now as well, LOL
ME 42 DH 42
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compley

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Wednesday, September 23rd 2009, 5:00pm

Aw Netty, I really feel for you. I've been keeping up with your thread, and sorry I haven't posted until now, have been meaning to, but not had much time to post lately!

You have absolutely given your all to feeding your DS, through some very difficult times, and you should really give yourself credit where credit is due!

I'm sorry you are now on antibiotics, it must feel like one thing after another. It must be an extremely difficult thing to do, to decide which way to go re the feeding now. Please don't ever feel worried about coming on here, and saying how you feel, asking for help and support, or just venting, honestly, we are all here to listen, and if we can, give help and support.

Today sounded a bit stressful for you, and whilst you are worried about going back/swimming etc, I think the other Mum's will be understanding. They may well have been through similar, or had bad times, with other parenting issues, and probably will be supportive, and happy to listen. I know when I've got together with my 'Mum' friends, we've often vented, had times when one of us has been in tears/at the end of our tether about something, and we've all been there/listened to each other, suggested things to try, and even if they can't suggest things that may help, just having a listening ear helps.

Take care, and like I said, we are are here to listen/help etc xxx



<

Indiechick

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Wednesday, September 23rd 2009, 8:39pm

Hi Netty

Don't you worry about venting on here, we are all here to listen and so feel free to sound off as and when you like! Well done you for still feeding, it sounds as if it's still really tough for you!

I know you have said before that your little one is hungry but I just wanted to share with you what happened with one of mine.

Poor little thing would scream and scream and scream and I'd feed and feed and feed only for him to scream and scream and scream the only thing that would pacify him was more feeding and like you I was so stressed about taking him out as I felt embarrassed. Then a HV asked how often and how much I was feeding, she suggested that I didn't feed as much as it could well be that I was misinterpreting his hunger and perhaps his belly was aching cos it was so full. I was dubious but desperate and gave it a try and things really did improve. He wouldn't take a dummy but it seems the sucking made him feel better but the increased feed make it worse if that makes sense! Only you know your baby but it might be worth a go?

I really do feel for you Netty, the constant round of feeding is totally exhausting and the screaming and yelling can bring you to your knees so sending you hugs!

x


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Wednesday, September 23rd 2009, 8:39pm

Oh Netty, please keep talking to us.

I'm sorry you didn't get any help from LLL. Has your HV been of any help?

You must remember that what you express has absolutely no bearing on the milk you produce when you're feeding him - neither in quantity or consistency.

And like Laura says, other mums will be very understanding. I had a rough few months with baby bubble at the start. I remember vividly three 'public' occasions. Firstly our first meet up as new mums with my NCT friends. It started by not being able to attach the car seat to the pushchair frame and crying in the car park in frustration, followed by baby bubble screaming and needing 3 feeds, 2 nappy changes and 1 clothing change in the space of 90 mins - whilst all the other babies slept happily like doormice - I cried all the way home. I also cried in a baby yoga class when she didn't stop crying and made herself sick by holding her breath and then again in our first swimming class where she screamed all the way through and all the other babies splashed and gurgled with happiness -luckily there the swimming pool water hid my tears! What I'm trying (badly) to say is that it happens, people do understand and it does get better.

I know it might sound peverse but it did actually help to get out and about - baby bubble seemed to go for longer between feeds (perhaps the change of scenery helped as a distraction) and, especially if we were somewhere where people understood, I relaxed a bit. Sometimes I used to swap babies with someone else and that often worked - she often used to calm down for someone else when she wouldn't/couldn't with me.

I know you'll have been round and round it and it's not for any of us to say what you should do but if you were to stop breastfeeding now then everyone would understand (not that you need us to!) and you have given him a brillant start. It sounds to me that somethings got to give.....

xx

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




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Wednesday, September 23rd 2009, 9:00pm

Apologies as you might have already tried them but one day DH had enough of me wailing 'I can't do it!!!' and called the Breastfeeding network they gave him tons of helpful advice and got someone to call me back when I had calmed down. The lady that called back listened to me crying for nearly 2 hours then supported me over the phone and through emails for a few days and because I was still stressing she put me in touch with a local breastfeeding counsellor who came round the next day and sat with me.

Their number is 08709008787 (09.30 - 19.30), if you haven't already tried they might be worth a go!

x


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Thursday, September 24th 2009, 7:58am

Netty hun, I'm with Bubble on the 'something's got to give' line of thought. You have tried so hard, and done well to keep going this long, much better than lots of other people (me included - gave up much earlier with both girls!) - no-one would judge you for saying 'enough's enough' and stopping bf'ing.

As for the whole out and about thing. Babies like to embarrass their parents - its in their job description. And they get better at fulfilling it as they get older, start to talk etc! E.g. 3 weeks ago my DD1 told the photographer and my DD2's christening that 'Mummy is wearing very big knickers today'!!!!

Other Mums understand though. Go out, get fresh air, meet other people. Even if its only a trip to the supermarket where old ladies will come and coo at him and make you smile at being able to show him off.

Big hugs lovely, its hard but good times are round the corner. Go easy on yourself.

x






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DD1, natural miracle, 2005
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  • "Netty" started this thread

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Thursday, September 24th 2009, 5:07pm

Thanks ladies, I've tried b'feeding since 4am and all day today, I'm exhausted. I went to the baby cafe again today, about my 7th visiti (run by nhs for breastfeeding mums) and two people commented on how much M fed and one actually said that she'd noticed him feeding and not just comfort sucking and then watched him getting frustrated because he couldn't get enough and was still hungry.

Everyone says how tiny he is as well and can't believe he's 14 weeks old. There was a 7 week baby there who was miles bigger than him.

I agree that something has definitely got to give, with DH working 12 hour shifts and been out of the house for 13+ hours it's a long old day. Just keep chaning my mind about what I want to do. One min I can't take any more and want to give up, one min I want to try to carry on doing both and then the next I just want to do one breastfeed in a morningand the rest formula.

Not sure if I mistake hunger for anything else as lots of people have witnessed how he gets and re-assure me that it's not me.

Will try to log on later
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Thursday, September 24th 2009, 5:07pm

Thanks ladies, I've tried b'feeding since 4am and all day today, I'm exhausted. I went to the baby cafe again today, about my 7th visiti (run by nhs for breastfeeding mums) and two people commented on how much M fed and one actually said that she'd noticed him feeding and not just comfort sucking and then watched him getting frustrated because he couldn't get enough and was still hungry.

Everyone says how tiny he is as well and can't believe he's 14 weeks old. There was a 7 week baby there who was miles bigger than him.

I agree that something has definitely got to give, with DH working 12 hour shifts and been out of the house for 13+ hours it's a long old day. Just keep chaning my mind about what I want to do. One min I can't take any more and want to give up, one min I want to try to carry on doing both and then the next I just want to do one breastfeed in a morningand the rest formula.

Not sure if I mistake hunger for anything else as lots of people have witnessed how he gets and re-assure me that it's not me.

Will try to log on later
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March 07 Early m'pause.Ovaries inactive
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Thursday, September 24th 2009, 5:32pm

Hi Netty,

I'm so sorry to hear that you're still having problems. I spoke to my mum about this as my brother was the original good year blimp when he was a baby and wouldn't stop eating (he was small at birth but made up for it from about 4 months onwards) she said that she also got very stressed and upset which interferred with her let down mechanism so she wasn't letting down as much milk and because of this the supply wasn't increasing (my grandmother was a midwife which is how she got support). She said that eventually she just had a few days in bed with my bro attached constantly to one boob or the other while she read a magazine/watched TV or dozed, then dad would feed him before bed with a bottle so she could get a couple of hours of proper sleep. He constantly sucked away during the day and eventually she relaxed and her milk started to flow properly, this stimulated her to make more milk in response to the increase in demand. I don't have any first hand experience to help you and this is second hand advice from my mother so I don't know if it's any good but my breast feeding book does also advise trying this so I don't know if it's worth a go.

There is nothing wrong with using formula, it's far better for him that you are less stressed and getting some sleep.


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Thursday, September 24th 2009, 6:45pm

Hi again Netty, Poor you!! What a time you're having!! I think all this constantly changing your mind is doing you no good at all. Why don't you just decide to formula feed, with only one breastfeed a day at a time when M is not ravenous ( there must be some point in the day when he's calm) and treat it as a little extra treat for you both, rather than a meal. And STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP ABOUT IT!!!! You are not a failure, and you have done amazingly well to cope with all this for so many weeks. But I really think you need to think about yourself, and your emotional and physical wellbeing, which is suffering at the moment. M needs his mummy to be well, and you need to ENJOY YOUR BABY !!!!
Did you know that if a baby gets breastmilk (any amount) for the first 3 months, the protection from infection will continue for the whole of his 1st year,even if he doesn't get any more breastmilk after that. M has had that already. :smile:

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Saturday, September 26th 2009, 4:07pm

Hi Netty

It's so confusing isn't it! Sounds like your little man is one very hungry boy then, like I said you know your own baby better than anyone. Like the other ladies have said you've done a fab job so far so please be kind to yourself and realise how well you have done to get this far. Breastfeeding has been the greatest challenge in my life. I had all these images of snuggling up and bonding through breastfeeding but the reality was very different, it was exhausting!

sending you hugs!

x


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Thursday, October 1st 2009, 8:42am

No advice to add Netty, the other girls have given you some brilliant advice already. Just wanted to let you know that I think you are a marvel to get this far and that we will support you with whatever you decide to do next.





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Monday, October 5th 2009, 8:31pm

Had a very busy few weeks hence no response, so apologies and many thanks to everyone for their lovely information, advice and support.

We are getting out and about lots now which is good so I'm not stuck in the house all day. Yes , M does still have screaming fits when he's hungry so I just say to people around me that he's a hungry baby.

I'm managing to do mixed feeding at the moment, M has a couple of bottles during the day and bottles during the night (so dh can help when he's not working and I can rest) which seems to be working ok so far ( kiss of death now I've said that, LOL) . I've only felt the "letdown" a few times in the first few months of breastfeeding but since I made the decision to mix feed like I am now I'm feeling the sensation a lot more so I'm taking that as a positive thing. :D M still gets frustrated as there still doesn't seem to be enough milk from me when I breastfeed him but I time it so that there will be a formula feed an hour to an hour and a half later so he won't have a knock on affect of constantly been hungry if you know what I mean ......

I'm struggling to make new friends who are "on my wavelength" but have now accepted that I can still make some good friends who don't have to completely get me etc ......... I've also had a few of my friends go out of their way to say that just because I've had a baby they don't want to not see me etc which is lovely. So am trying to be more positive about things.

Yes, I'm still knackered, have another sore throat and am full of cold but don't feel as low/bad as I did previoulsy.

Thanks again for all your wonderful support.
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Monday, October 5th 2009, 10:58pm

Aren't you wonderful!!!

The fact that you're still breastfeeding after everything you've faced is absolutely brilliant!! Well done you!!! You're a tough cookie! :smile:





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Tuesday, October 6th 2009, 1:38pm

Good on you Netty! So pleased to hear you sounding happier!

x


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Tuesday, October 6th 2009, 11:14pm

Well done Netty! Nice to hear you are feeling happier and more relaxed. You sound as if you're enjoying M more too!

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Wednesday, October 7th 2009, 9:12am

Quoted

Originally posted by Netty
I'm managing to do mixed feeding at the moment .

Well done :happy:

Quoted

Originally posted by Netty
I've only felt the "letdown" a few times in the first few months of breastfeeding but since I made the decision to mix feed like I am now I'm feeling the sensation a lot more so I'm taking that as a positive thing. .

The same thing happened with me actually, when i was bf at the start i hardly ever felt the letdown but once i started combined feeding it was much stronger....thought it was just me!

Quoted

Originally posted by Netty
I'm struggling to make new friends who are "on my wavelength" but have now accepted that I can still make some good friends who don't have to completely get me .

Same here. All my mummy friends gave up breastfeeding long ago and couldn't understand why i was continuing. They dont have to understand you :smile:




ICSI May 08 - BFP
Our beautiful baby girl was born February 2009
Jan 2010 natural BFP M/C 9 weeks
May 2011 - BFP
Baby boy born Jan 2012




bubble

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78

Wednesday, October 7th 2009, 12:07pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Michelle
Same here. All my mummy friends gave up breastfeeding long ago and couldn't understand why i was continuing. They dont have to understand you :smile:


Oi, am I not a mummy friend?!? I understand (and am still going :snigger: )

Lovely to hear you sounding better Netty, keep talking to us.

x

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




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Wednesday, October 7th 2009, 1:11pm

:P you know what i mean, i mean my Costa coffee friends.......not my proper friends!!




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Jan 2010 natural BFP M/C 9 weeks
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compley

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Wednesday, October 7th 2009, 8:06pm

Lovely to hear from you Netty, and that you are feeling better, and doing an amazing job! xxx



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Wednesday, January 20th 2010, 10:42pm

I just wanted to thank everyone for the support they gave me and it's only further down the line that you realise how valuable your replies have been to me.

Well, I managed exculisve B/F for 14 weeks and have been mixed feeding since then !! It's worked out very well for me, everyone is much happier !!!!!

I wanted to breastfeed for six months and have managed over seven and am so proud of myself but some of that is thanks to you guys !!!!

I'm starting to wind down breastfeeding now in preparation of M going to nursery and my going back to work.

I wont' deny the first 14 weeks after was born were bloody hard on several levels BUT we persevered and have come out of the other side.

Thanks again ladies.

Annette
xxxxx
ME 42 DH 42
H'copy Nov 05
2 Early m/c 06
March 07 Early m'pause.Ovaries inactive
IVF Aug 07 No response to drugs Adoption only optn
MIRACLE BFP Oct 08 !!



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Thursday, January 21st 2010, 2:05am

Hi Netty,

Lovely to hear from you! And why am I not surprised that you're still doing some breastfeeding!!!!! I think you have every right to feel proud of yourself - you had such a bad start, and struggled for so long, and still didn't give up!!

Pammy is another who's struggling like you were, and is reluctant to give up ( see " I don't thiink I can do this any more") Maybe you could tell her your story.

All the best Netty, I hope you have lots of fun with Michael, and really enjoy motherhood. I'm sure you'll find it's even better than you ever dreamed it would be when you were ttc.

Love x




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