Expressing

Star

Reg: Oct 3rd 2005

Location: Primrose House

Sunday, August 20th 2006, 7:10pm

Thank Limpet - that's useful to know. 2 and half days was a long time so I suppose it isn't surprising that things would be effected.

I did go out in the end and expressed when I should of being feeding - 'missed' 2 feeds as I did some research on the webb and advice tended to range from leaving 1-2 hours per drink before bf again. Although a lot of sites did also say hardly any alcohol passes through to the milk

But to be on the safe side I did still express and chuck until the next day (couldn't believe how much I had to express to feel empty 8o). DD didn't hardly feed at all from DH whilst I was out and when I got home she took only took about 3oz of EBM at most over the couse of the night - difficult to judge though as she hasn't really mastered the technique of bottle feeding and most of it seems to go straight out the corner of her mouth!. She made up for it the next day though

TBH it was quite hard work! The next morning I felt more tired as I was up longer expressing and trying to feed DD EBM and had an awful headache from the red wine I'd been drinking LOL. BUT it does make me feel better knowing I can go out and have a drink once in a while so I'm definately going to make sure I do every fortnight or so

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kizzy

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Tuesday, August 22nd 2006, 3:19pm

Are you using a hand pump or electrical pump ?

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Primrose

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Tuesday, August 22nd 2006, 7:47pm

hand pump - just bog standard Avent one that came free with the steraliser - does the job a treat

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kizzy

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Thursday, August 24th 2006, 1:01pm

thats what i have.

At my classes this week, we asked about expressing, when you can started etc how long it keeps for etc ....

The midwife said not to express unless they say so as it makes the baby lazy with feeding. Baby gets used to the bottle and its easier making it harder to go back on the breast.

breast milk can be frozen but only kept in a fridge for 72 hours ... She if the baby becomes lazy with the breast - express milk into a cup or a avent bottle to feed the baby with - this makes the tongue work and they 'lap' the milk ......

HAS anyone heard of this or agree with any of this - i was pretty set on express so DP can handle some of the feeding and maybe i'll get a night off !!!

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ADMINISTRATOR

Thursday, August 24th 2006, 2:29pm

It depends whether it's absolutely necessary for you to express (like going back to work). Ideally you would give it 6 weeks before even thinking about expressing as your mik supply is still adjusting, your baby is learning how to feed and everything has yet to fall into place.

If you find that you need to express in the early days then express but keep breastfeeding in between. Faffing about with cups is only going to detract baby from sucking at the breast again. I doubt that any baby would become 'lazy' from taking an occasional bottle. If you're giving lots of bottles then yes but for breastfeeding to be succesfull you need to breastfeed.

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kizzy

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Thursday, August 24th 2006, 2:41pm

thanks Bells

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Primrose

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Thursday, August 24th 2006, 7:48pm

hmm speaking from experience I would question the cup thing! Tried with my DD who, although thought it was a brilliant fun, didn't actually drink much LOL! There's a definate knack to cup feeding a baby! Also I think common advice now is that breast milk will keep in the fridge for a week.

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tinkerbell

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Monday, November 20th 2006, 5:29pm

Sorry to ask such an odd question but is it normal to get purple nips when expressing??

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ADMINISTRATOR

Monday, November 20th 2006, 8:26pm

In my opinion yes to a certain extent as you're sucking the skin (like a love bite). They may also look an odd shape for a wee while afterwards but as long as they return to normal shortly after it shouldn't be a problem.

If they're going very purple you might want to pump a little less hard. Short, sharp but fairly light pumps may help your LDR and then you shouldn't need to pump very hard at all.

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tinkerbell

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Wednesday, November 22nd 2006, 3:12pm

Tx hon..........LDR gen no prob...but on boob that now has mastitis....purple really fast and with smallestt amunt of pump pressure...still goes back ok so cant be doing too much harm....now just need to deal with mastitis....deep joy!!!

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Megastar

Reg: Oct 3rd 2005

Wednesday, November 22nd 2006, 3:16pm

Are you on anti biotics Tinks?

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tinkerbell

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Wednesday, November 22nd 2006, 3:19pm

Yep doc gave me them today immediatley.......

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Megastar

Reg: Oct 3rd 2005

Wednesday, November 22nd 2006, 3:30pm

Hope you feel better soon xx

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tinkerbell

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Wednesday, November 22nd 2006, 3:55pm

Tx hon...me too!!!!

x

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Wednesday, November 22nd 2006, 7:26pm

Tinks, don't forget that antibiotics kill the good bacteria as well as the bad bacteria. The good bacteria protect you against thrush so take some Yakult/Danone type stuff or take some acidophilous tablets while you're on the antibiotics and for a week after. Just to help your body make some good bugs.

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mrsjasper

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Wednesday, November 22nd 2006, 7:56pm

Also paracetamol for the pain and/or brufen if you can take it.

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tinkerbell

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Wednesday, November 22nd 2006, 10:17pm

Tx girls...will do!!!

xx

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Torisen

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Thursday, November 23rd 2006, 10:51am

Tinker let me know if you can't get hold of acidophilus near you... if not then I can try to pick some up for monday... I am heading into town anyway...

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tinkerbell

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Thursday, November 23rd 2006, 11:16am

MIL got me some today and have started taking it already.......tx for offer tho hon......still needing those new nips if you can source some of those!!

xx

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mrsjasper

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Friday, November 24th 2006, 10:01am

How much alcohol can I drink whilst expressing? I've gone off wine a bit since being PG, I can't drink more than half a glass 8o but I'm going out tonight and will need a glass or two to cope with the separation anxiety. I'll probably be plastered after one glass! Is 2 glasses ok?

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Diddle

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Friday, November 24th 2006, 10:03am

I would say if you are going to have two glasses then don't feed untill the morning. xxxx

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ADMINISTRATOR

Friday, November 24th 2006, 10:57am

I think you'll be fine Mrs J. If you're having a meal and a couple of glasses of wine spaced out over an evening then have a couple of glasses of water in between. It takes a couple of hours for one drink to leave your blood stream so if you can leave it 4-5ish hours after drinking a couple of glasses of wine you can be pretty sure that your milk is ok.

Not recommending that you're necking vodka from the bottle or owt but a sensible amount of alcohol with food and water, spaced out over a few hours is going to be ok.

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Primrose

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Saturday, November 25th 2006, 7:36pm

I know this is too late Mrs J but just wanted to say I did loads of research on this as DD wouldn't take the bottle at all - most information says leave 1 or 2 hours after a drink to bf. 2 glasses are fine and just to reassure there doesn't appear to be any conclusion about how much alcohol does pass over - my peadetrician advised it was negligible and my HV used to advise having a glass of wine to numb the pain of bf! but in saying that I have only ever had 2 glasses as I didn't want to risk it. I also remember reading that research does suggest though that a side effect of drinking the alcohol is that you produce a bit less milk but your boobs actually feel fuller.

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Primrose

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Saturday, November 25th 2006, 7:44pm

sorry forgot to ask.. Do you know how long it will take for my hormones to get straight - I feel like someone's stolen my smile

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tinkerbell

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Sunday, November 26th 2006, 3:32pm

Smile primrose whats one of those....I know what grimaces are and tears and the knashing of teeth and wailing (all around BF time)........ah yes SMILES....I rememebr they come spontaneously when we look at our little miracles!!!

xx

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Primrose

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Sunday, November 26th 2006, 6:06pm

sorry I posted that in the wrong thread - I really am going crazy! my hormones are all over the shop as DD is stopping bf - I'm trying to ease off gradually by expressing a bit at the times she would have fed but I'm only get an ounce at a time now.

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ellied

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Monday, May 14th 2007, 3:08pm

I did a lot of expressing in the early days when my son was in NICU and SCBU and carried on for quite a while after we came home. Until he was about 6 months, but only when I was feeling up to it. I used to do one session after breakfast and one after his bedtime. Later, when we were down to one breastfeed a day, just before I stopped breastfeeding, I eased things by expressing.

Our feed pattern was one side each feed, so if I expressed then I did the 'other one'. I had tons in the freezer at one stage 8o

The pump I had was this one:
http://www.ciao.co.uk/Medela_Mini_Electr…t_Pump__5324447

I'm not sure I could have coped with a manual one after the Caeser. Only one thing wrong with the pump, too noisey to listen to radio, telly etc. However, for some reason, the noise never woke the baby

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tinkerbell

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Saturday, June 23rd 2007, 7:49pm

OH no...I have repetitive strain injury caused by expressing and have had to have my hand strapped.....can you bloody adam n eve it...MARE........the only downside to hand expressing .

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "tinkerbell" (Jun 23rd 2007, 7:49pm)

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Rainbow Sprite

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 1:44pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Bookworm
The breastfeeding counsellor who did a session at our NCT class told us that you shouldn't mix breast and bottles before the baby is 6 weeks old as it will confuse it - apparently there is a different form of sucking needed for each.
Bookworm

Ooerrr, I was told different today as my nipples are killing and I have a super latch on hard sucking baby, I ant to cry everytime she comes to me for a feed *also wants to suck at me for well over an hour sometimes* I gave her two formula bottles Early hours Sunday, Fed her by Breast yesterday all day and switched to formula again through the night.
I'm not producing enough milk by myself apparently, therefore thats why she is not satisfied with me, Consultant said just to try the breast for 5mins each side then top her up with 70mls of formula at the feed.

Oh would like to add that after around 12hours of not BF I managed to get 60mls from each breast by pump today.

Has anyone else been through anything similar as I would love to continue to breastfeed her for 6months, although its looking a bit dim.???

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rainbow Sprite" (May 26th 2008, 1:45pm)

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 1:54pm

Quoted

Originally posted by mrsantro

Ooerrr, I was told different today as my nipples are killing and I have a super latch on hard sucking baby, I ant to cry everytime she comes to me for a feed *also wants to suck at me for well over an hour sometimes* I gave her two formula bottles Early hours Sunday, Fed her by Breast yesterday all day and switched to formula again through the night.
I'm not producing enough milk by myself apparently, therefore thats why she is not satisfied with me, Consultant said just to try the breast for 5mins each side then top her up with 70mls of formula at the feed.

Oh would like to add that after around 12hours of not BF I managed to get 60mls from each breast by pump today.

Ok.. important....

Your baby is very new and your milk is nowhere near established yet. Do NOT gauge how much milk you are producing by how much you can express. It's an inaccurate guide.

Your milk supply is determined by how much you breastfeed. If you breastfeed a lot you will produce a lot of milk (it takes a few days for your supply to adapt) If you breastfeed a bit you will produce a bit of milk.

If you offer bottles in the place of feeds you will produce less milk. If you offer only five minutes of sucking you will produce less milk. If you offer formula as well as the breast you will produce less milk. You are not producing enough milk because you are not breastfeeding enough to stimulate your breasts into producing milk.

Your consultant has given you great advice if you want to bottlefeed. If you want to breastfeed then unfortunately your consultant has just more or less ruined your chances. S/he obviously doesn't understand how breastfeeding works.

I know it can be very uncomfortable at first. You can buy nipple shields, these are soft silicone nipples that sit over your own nipples whild your baby feeds. You also really need to look at your latch and make sure that AS MUCH of your breast is in her mouth as will possibly fit. Also, if she's sucking but not swallowing, take her off the breast. You can see that her ears will wiggle, her chin will move and she will swallow every other suck. If she's not doing this then she's using you as a dummy. Put your little finger inside the corner of her mouth to break the seal and take her off the breast.

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Rivka

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 2:25pm

Quoted

Originally posted by mrsantro

I want to cry everytime she comes to me for a feed

I know just how you feel here. It can be so desperately painful in those first few weeks. With Pud I bit right through a teether I was using to steel myself against the pain. But please, if you want to make a long term success of bf you can't go far wrong with advice from Bells.

It does get better, I promise!

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Rainbow Sprite

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 2:50pm

Thank you both for the great advice.

i'm feeling pretty confused and really guilty about the whole thing in general and have had a few good cries too.

She's perfect at latching and I followed the advice that if shes sucking and swallowing its correct and to get as much nipple in, which she does, thats why I dont understand why it hurts so bloody much?

Also was told if it hurts youre not doing it right.
Think I'll follow what the nurse said today with the 5min each side before formula, then next week at our next visit pick it up with her again.

I can always go back to it if I'm still doing 5mins each side, if I change my mind, can't I???

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 3:10pm

Quoted

Originally posted by mrsantro

I can always go back to it if I'm still doing 5mins each side, if I change my mind, can't I???

Not really. In a week your body will be winding down on the milk production and by that point your baby will be well established on sucking with minimal effort from a bottle with a hole in the end making the trasition back to breastfeeding a very hard uphill struggle.

If you're getting upset and you're happy to give a bottle then don't feel guilty about it.

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Rainbow Sprite

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Monday, May 26th 2008, 4:11pm

Bells, thank you again for the advice you are giving, it really helps.

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Sunshine

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Tuesday, May 27th 2008, 12:10pm

Quoted

Originally posted by mrsantro
Thank you both for the great advice.

i'm feeling pretty confused and really guilty about the whole thing in general and have had a few good cries too.

She's perfect at latching and I followed the advice that if shes sucking and swallowing its correct and to get as much nipple in, which she does, thats why I dont understand why it hurts so bloody much?

Also was told if it hurts youre not doing it right.
Think I'll follow what the nurse said today with the 5min each side before formula, then next week at our next visit pick it up with her again.

I can always go back to it if I'm still doing 5mins each side, if I change my mind, can't I???

oh balls I knew I must have lost my post - blooming battery on my laptop sucks and it died as I was posting

right

try again

did you have flat or inverted nipples prior to becoming pregnant?

after feeding do your nipples stick out by about 1cm?

if yes & then no, then I would really recommend getting some nipple SHELLS (not shields). Shields you put on and then feed the baby. My two had mouths that were too small for shields.

Shells you put on before a feed - about 5 minutes. They put pressure on the breast and help extract the nipple making it all sticky-outy. Then the baby can really easily latch on.

i endured 8 weeks of hell before I discovered these and they were a godsend (I still have scars as my DS#1 sucked so hard I had bleeding open wounds! I still have white scars on my nipples!)

I did some research later - apparently people with flat or inverted nipples have adhesions tying the nipples to the breast tissue.

When the baby sucks the pain could either be from not sucking enough breast tissue OR it could be (as mine was both!) from some of the adhesions breaking and releasing the nipple.

If it is the latter then the shells will help this.

The other thing is that if you become engorged then a full breast will stretch your nipple so much it becomes flat and however hard the baby sucks s/he cant get the nipple pulled out. This is again where the shells become useful.

Another plus side is that wearing the shells can release some of the foremilk, so that when your baby sucks the time to the yummy filling hindmilk is shorter.

I also have to say, Bells' advice about timings & pumping & topping up is spot on. I completely agree and so wont add anything more.

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Wednesday, February 25th 2009, 2:51pm

Wow, it's been ages since there was a post in here but it's a great thread and i've sat here and read through all of it as my little one seems to be having her longest sleep ever

I've been using the medela electric pump for a couple of weeks now and manage to get out about 4oz each time. It's a brilliant little pump and even takes batteries so that i can use it anywhere (not that i use it whilst walking around sainsbury's but you could if you wanted too!!)

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Rae

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Thursday, June 18th 2009, 5:21pm

Great thread ... I am thinking about expressing but have a question - can you mix the milk you have expressed at different times in order to make up a whole feed?

Also if I leave LO with DP/Mum with a bottle of expressed milk will I need to take the pump with me to express when his feed is due??

R x

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Thursday, June 18th 2009, 5:57pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Rae
Great thread ... I am thinking about expressing but have a question - can you mix the milk you have expressed at different times in order to make up a whole feed?

Yes you can do this as long as when it comes to storage time in the fridge you use it within 24 hours of expressing the first bit. I often express two or three times a day between my dd's feeds to make up a 7 or 8 ounce bottle for the night.

Quoted

Originally posted by Rae
Also if I leave LO with DP/Mum with a bottle of expressed milk will I need to take the pump with me to express when his feed is due??
R x

It's up to you and depends what your supply is like. I've never expressed when i've been out....but then i dont get out much or for very long :snigger:

How long will you be away from your baby?

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Rae

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Friday, June 19th 2009, 9:47am

Thanks Michelle - will only be out for an evening occasionally so only 3-4 hours.

x

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bubble

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Friday, July 3rd 2009, 1:08pm

Tell me that this is also something that gets easier?!?

I've only just started expressing. I managed only 2oz last night and only an ounce this morning. Surely I should be able to get more than that? I followed all the advice about relaxing, warm flannels etc etc. I can get that amount pretty quickly but then it just stops and I can't get restarted. Will it get better with practice?

x

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mrsjasper

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Friday, July 3rd 2009, 1:25pm

Are you doing it with a pump or by hand? I was chatting via text about this with a FZer who is no longer around here. She had lots of nipple problems and expressed a lot to give them a break so is something of an expert. She said about 100 mls (roughly 3oz) in 20 minutes with a pump and 120 by hand, so not huge amounts. Hand expressign takes practice. I had a go the other day (with a pump) and got 100mls in about 20 mins, thats about 10 mins per breast. Is there a time of day when you seem to have more? Are you doing both sides? If you look here http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/milkcalc.html you can work out how much she will need per feed so maybe 1oz isn't such a tiny amount. Have you tried expressing from one side while she feeds from the other? Have you tried massaging your breasts before hand? If you haven't already found it, this link is great http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/pumping_decrease.html and this http://www.llli.org/NB/NBMarApr96p51.html
None of these links are FZ endorsed.

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philippa_s

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Friday, July 3rd 2009, 2:12pm

I used to express on a night, the same time she used to have a feed, but once she'd dropped it i.e. the 10pm feed.

I found, bizarrely, that having my ipod on helped.

Are you getting the let-down?

2 gorgeous girls and 1 on the way

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Friday, July 3rd 2009, 3:08pm

Dont forget though that your breasts are not used to you expressing and are producing to Baby Bubble's appetite. As you get used to expressing you will produce a bit more and be able to build up the amount you get out. Also, i find that the foremilk will come out quickly (about 2oz) and then the hind milk takes a bit longer and it can seem like it's stopped flowing but has just slowed down alot. I use an electric pump and turn it up a notch to get the hind milk out.

You need to be relaxed too but it does get easier - i can pump whilst walking around the house tidying up now :snigger:

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bubble

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Friday, July 3rd 2009, 6:13pm

Thanks ladies. I'm expressing - well trying to - with a manual avent pump. I think however I'm only getting the foremilk out and then it stops. P - I don't feel let-down strongly at all in any case and am not convinced I'm getting it when expressing. I tried both sides but the left one was even worse than the right. She's never had a regular late evening feed so I'm expressing as well as all her normal feeds so I suppose my body needs to catch up with the increased demand. I don't think I could physically pump on one side and feed on the other - not enough hands :snigger:

I don't think I've been that relaxed when doing it so far so need to work on that too (yes I am the kind of person who needs to work on being relaxed!).

I only want enough to be able to go and get my highlights done without worrying that she'll starve. :rolleyes:

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mrsjasper

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Friday, July 3rd 2009, 8:01pm

Quoted

Originally posted by bubble

I only want enough to be able to go and get my highlights done without worrying that she'll starve.

I've been considering taking her to the hairdressers and feeding her under the gown so I can get my grey covered up!

If you have been using the hairdresser for a while maybe she would consider doing you at home as a one off?

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Friday, July 3rd 2009, 8:46pm

I find it much harder to get the hind milk out with my manual pump (and cant be bothered with the effort) but with the electric one it's much easier and also allows me to have a hand free. It's not worth the expense though if it's just for occasional use.

Do you know if she'd take ebm Bubble? Even C can be a bit fussy with it these days and she's really used to bottles.....but will scream the place down to see if i'm around with my boobs first :snigger:

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bubble

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Friday, July 3rd 2009, 9:20pm

Tried that MrsJ - I had them done a couple of months ago at home and she screamed the whole time. Plus I'd quite like now to go out and leave her for a few hours!

Michelle - we've tried a couple of times over the last 24 hours to give her the EBM that I have managed to get. Put it this way, she's not that enthusiastic and looks at us as if to ask what the hell we're doing to her :snigger:

She took a tiny little bit of it by dripping it into her mouth and then her swallowing. I suppose I'm also hoping to be able to express enough to freeze so that we can give it her in a cup in a month or so.

Thanks for the advice - I'll perserve - not tonight though :smile:

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philippa_s

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Friday, July 3rd 2009, 9:27pm

Mrs J be careful!!!! Apparently the fumes at the hairdressers can cause an allergic reaction in a 15 year old (yes!! my Em) And bubble, how dare you go have ur hair done! Took me 7and a half months to get mine done!!!!!!!

Bubble, you're probably not far off for a feed if you can express another 3-4oz or so so by next month I'm sure you'll have enough. If you're wanting to see what ur expressing, pop it in the fridge as it seperates out like whole milk so you can see what is foremilk and what is the hindmilk. I have the same pump as you're using and I find it ok...just makes your hand ache but it is an artform

Good luck chick

P x

2 gorgeous girls and 1 on the way

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bubble

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Friday, July 3rd 2009, 9:35pm

Oh but my roots are showing again now!

That's interesting - I thought it was all foremilk but it did look different after being in the fridge for a time. Do you find the suction ok on that pump P? - sometimes I wonder if I've got it right....

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)

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philippa_s

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Friday, July 3rd 2009, 9:42pm

Oh my god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have I just told you something you didn't already know :snigger:

Yeah I find it ok! I must admit that I tend to 'lean' forward into it, I suppose as you tend to when you feed. It's also better when you put it together wet. Did you get it off someone here (seem to remember reading that you did!!) Has it got the plastic bit (the let down something) cos thats a new addition (well, since I had Em :snigger

and it's better with it in

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