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Bells

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Tuesday, October 11th 2005, 1:10pm

Expressing

***thread started October 2005*** I'm bumping this and making it sticky as some of the information is still relevant

Answering the thread about breastpumps I found myself rambling on (as usual) so I deleted and thought I'd post seperately. :rolleyes: :D


Someone asked 'does it hurt?', someone on another thread said 'does it take ages?' and there are lots of ladies who are hoping that feeding expressed milk will give them the freedom to get a bit of sleep or help Daddy bond with the baby.

So I thought that the folks who have breastfed could offer their tips for successful expressing.............


Ok...first the science bit ..... are you sitting comfortably?.... :D

Before a feed, if you squeeze your nipple you will get a white, watery discharge. When you first put your baby to the breast for a feed he/she will suck frantically for a few seconds/minutes. While baby is sucking they are getting a slow feed of thirst quenching fore milk (thin watery milk). At some point the strong sucking triggers a switch in your brain and you release a hormone called oxytocin. This hormone opens the floodgates inside your breasts and all of a sudden your milk 'comes in'. Some women feel nothing, some feel a slight tingling, some feel a gripping sensation on their breasts and for some it feels like a mild cramp starting from their neck and working down to their breasts, it can even be painful. This feeling lasts a few seconds.

At this point the milk may begin to squirt out on its own without baby having to suck. Baby may even cough and choke as the milk squirts down his/her throat. The flow then slows down and the milk changes to rich creamy hind milk. The baby will adjust his/her sucking pattern to reflect the speed of the milk, baby may also clamp his/her tongue down to halt the milk for a moment. Baby continues to feed until the he/she's full up and by this point the breast is largely empty though you will certainly still get a rich creamy milk out if you squeeze your nipple.

All this is easy when you have a beautiful, soft, warm baby to look at. You'll have those feelings of love and will be relaxing into a chair to make your baby comfortable. It's not the same when you're on your own with a piece of machinery clamped to your nipple!!!


Ok...so here's my analogy which I use when describing the 'let down reflex'. As the 'let down reflex' is dependent on physical stimulation and a hormone (oxytocin) flicking a switch, it can only happen if you're relaxed. It's like...AN ORGASM!!! 8o. Well, an orgasm is triggered by a physical stimulation and a hormone (would you believe...OXYTOCIN!!!)You wouldn't be able to have an orgasm if you were sat at the dining table with your in-laws but you can do it in a comfortable room with the lights down low. If you're tired out, stressed, panicking, worried or any of those negative things then you can't have an orgasm....it's the same with the let down reflex. When this state of relaxation isn't achieved that Mums find that they are unable to express.

So to express milk you need to be relaxed, and you need to trick your body into the physical state of 'flicking the hormone switch'.

Sit comfortable in a chair, make sure that the curtains are closed ;) (or that no-one can see in). Make sure that you won't be disturbed, have a warm drink and relax. It may help to gently massage your breasts or place a warm wet flannel over them.

Put the pump over your nipple and begin with short, sharp, fast pumps (mimicking the baby's furious first sucks), relax your shoulders, breath regularly and think about your baby feeding. At first this may feel 'wierd' and your nipple will certainly look extremely odd through the breastpump 8o but persevere with this strong, fast pumping until your milk comes in. When it does you will adjust your pumping rate to draw out as much milk as you can, Long, slow pumps, allowing the jets to finish before pumping again. If your milk doesn't come in then you will find that expressing is a very time consuming affair and the constant hard pumping can make your breasts quite sore....which defeats the object.

After a while you'll learn how to relax and will be able to express as you chat, knowing that the outward physical relaxation and stimulation is enough to trick the hormone switch without you having to be shut away in a quiet room.

Sorry about this (trademark) long rambling post.....does anyone else have any tips?





pirhanachomp

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Thursday, October 27th 2005, 9:27am

what a great thread hun!!

I dont have any tips but the other day I was talking to 2 women who breast fed with both of their kids for about a year with each!!

They said to me that breast feeding does hurt for the first few weeks and to ignore the rumours about if it hurts your doing it wrong!! they said it'll hurt no matter what for the first few weeks (not on all women) but to persevere and the pain will eventually stop!!

Jessica x x

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Thursday, October 27th 2005, 9:42am

Bells - another fantastic thread and information.

You're such a great help to all those pg, and even those like me who are reading up about things in the hope we'll need the knowledge shortly

xx

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Thursday, October 27th 2005, 9:59am

Thanks for the info Bells.

Can you help in terms of when to express - i.e. do you do it on the other breast after the baby has fed, or in between feeds or whenever you want to?

Its just that the info I read about storing breastmilk says you can't mix it, so what do you do if you only get a small amount? In that case can you give the baby 2 (or more) seperate bottles?

And does expressing mean there is less available for the baby when it wants to feed? I'm assuming not, but again I have been told the baby can feed from both breasts at one sitting, so I wasn't sure how this worked in practice.

Any help would be most appreciated.
Bookworm
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First IVF started 11/03/05, amazing BFP 29/04/05 :D
Beautiful DS, born 29/12/05 [zx203]

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Thursday, October 27th 2005, 11:07am

I read a tip the other day about putting a bobble on your left wrist if you fed from the left last, then changing it to your right after your next feed!!

xxx








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Thursday, October 27th 2005, 11:22am

I expressed milk for my baby born 10 weks premature- luckily the hospital lent me an electric pump which was far easier than hand expessing. however it was still time consuming as yuo need to express 6-8 times per day to maintain supply. I did however have to switch to formula feeding at 6 weeks, as by the time thomas was big enough to latch on to the breast, he had got too used to feeding from bottles and couldn't latch on. To say i was gutted was an understatement, but at least he had some breast milk.
If i can offer any advice re expressing, then ask away!!

nikki





Bells

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Thursday, October 27th 2005, 11:36am

Quoted

Originally posted by Bookworm
Can you help in terms of when to express - i.e. do you do it on the other breast after the baby has fed, or in between feeds or whenever you want to?


It depends really as every woman's totally different. You might find at first that you're very engorged and your baby isn't emptying you even after a good feed OR you may wake up with very painful, lumpy breasts and need to take off a little bit just to relieve the discomfort. The problem is that the more you feed (or express) the more milk you make so taking milk off may mean that you produce more.

Some babies will completely empty one side and that will be enough, some want both sides. (my second would always have the other side then be sick, she was just greedy).

You won't know what your milk supply will be like until after your baby is born, you also won't know how much milk you have during the day or night so it really is a case of playing it by ear and deciding if you have milk to spare that can be expressed and frozen.

Quoted

Its just that the info I read about storing breastmilk says you can't mix it, so what do you do if you only get a small amount? In that case can you give the baby 2 (or more) seperate bottles?


I donated my breastmilk to a special care baby unit last year and they told me that it was fine to mix it. I've always mixed frozen milk and never been told not to. I can't really see that there would be a problem mixing it but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

Quoted

And does expressing mean there is less available for the baby when it wants to feed? I'm assuming not, but again I have been told the baby can feed from both breasts at one sitting, so I wasn't sure how this worked in practice.


If you were to fully empty one breast by feeding baby then completely empty the other side by expressing then you would need to allow them to both fill up again before you fed again. If baby was going an hour or two then you may not feel completely full but you would probably have enough in both sides to feed again. If baby went 4 hours then you'd be fine to feed again. It all depends on how much you feed and how much you express, you're the only one who will be able to figure out how much you have spare and how long it will take for your body to replenish it.

The problem with expressing is that your body is less effective at maintaining your milk supply than if you were solely breastfeeding as the stimulation is not the same. So, if you're expressing every day at a certain time, you may find that you produce slightly less milk; as time goes on you may find that expressed milk is diminishing you may find that you need to 'top up' with formula. Once the baby is having top ups of formula he wont be demanding the breast milk and your milk will diminish even more to you need to top up even more with formula.....etc etc etc.... Gradually some Mums get to the stage where they find they don't have enough milk.

Some Mums have babies in SCBU and can only express as their babies are too small to breastfeed, some women fantastically manage weeks of sole expressing (I'm absilutely in awe of these women) but usually after weeks or months, they find that their milk diminishes and they then have to move on to formula. It's just because expressing isn't as stimulating for body or mind, the less the body is stimulated, the less milk it produces, the less it's stimulated, the less it produces.....etc etc

This cycle doesn't just happen with expressing, it happens with mix feeding too. As baby demands less breastmilk, you produce less breastmilk and baby isn't satisfied after a breastfeed. This is especially the case at night as your body produced a huge percentage of your milk making hormones at night. If you replace night time bottles with formula then you're not going to produce as much milk...and the cycle starts all over again...not enough milk, hungry baby, top ups with formula, less milk....etc.

Your body produces as much or as little milk as it need to produce. The only way it knows if it need to produce more is by increasing feeding but this takes time. It may take 2-3-4-5 days to increase your milk supply by longer more frequent feeds. Sometimes, if baby is going through a growth spurt he may be feeding constantly for a few days and you may feel like you're not getting a chance to 'fill up'. Baby will definately be getting enough milk and there's no need to top up with formula, the best thing you can do is increase the number of feeds for several days until your milk catches up. When baby's feeding has calmed down a bit you may still be left with this increased milk supply.....out comes the pump and you can really make the most of the extra milk for a few days until it starts diminishing again.

Again, everyone's different. You may have 'just' enough to feed your baby and none to spare, then again you may have giant gazongas that could feed a third world country. Big boobs don't mean lots of milk and small boobs don't mean no milk, it depends on the amount of milk producing tissue inside so you won't know until after baby comes.


All babies are hungry, some more than others but your milk is perfect for your baby, it's been designed specially for your baby and if you can trust your body to grow your baby then you can trust it to feed your baby.... unfortunately that may mean that you resemble a zombie for a couple of months but hey....that's motherhood :D.





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Thursday, October 27th 2005, 11:38am

Quoted

Originally posted by nikki78
I expressed milk for my baby born 10 weks premature- luckily the hospital lent me an electric pump which was far easier than hand expessing. however it was still time consuming as yuo need to express 6-8 times per day to maintain supply. I did however have to switch to formula feeding at 6 weeks, as by the time thomas was big enough to latch on to the breast, he had got too used to feeding from bottles and couldn't latch on. To say i was gutted was an understatement, but at least he had some breast milk.
If i can offer any advice re expressing, then ask away!!

nikki



You're amazing!





Bells

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Thursday, October 27th 2005, 11:40am

Quoted

Originally posted by samd
I read a tip the other day about putting a bobble on your left wrist if you fed from the left last, then changing it to your right after your next feed!!

xxx


Yes, good thinking! Some women put a safety pin or ribbon on their bra strap. You might find that you can easily tell as one side is humungous and leaking..... and one looks like a popped balloon :D





pirhanachomp

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Thursday, October 27th 2005, 1:02pm



I found these on ebay so I'm getting my friend to make us a load up if anyones interested?

she sells loads of bracelets and necklaces and says she doesn't mind doing some of these for us! similar ones anyway! she doesn't have the beads in between the lettering, but will add bead colours of your choice!

Jessica x x

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Thursday, October 27th 2005, 4:58pm

Bells, I have a bit of a TMI question hun.... My poorly nipple is quite swollen on one side, it looks like a lump but is soft, you can press it and it looks like it fills back up. It isn't painful, but I have been leaking quite a bit from this side now compared to the other. Is this a blockage?

xxx








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Bells

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Thursday, October 27th 2005, 5:45pm

Sam I don't know I'm afraid.

There are blocked milk ducts and there's mastitis. If you have any redness, swelling, hardness or heat in the area then you need to go to the docs and have it looked at. A blocked milk duct may clear up on its own or it may go on to develop mastitis, a course of antibiotics is all that's needed to shift mastitis so it's not particularly horrible. If mastitis isn't treated then it may lead to abscesses in the breast.


When your milk comes in a few days after you have your baby, you may find that you have these strange 'marble-like' lumps all over your breast and behind your nipple. These are nothing to worry about unless you get a hot, swollen or painfull area.


It may be that when you had your breast re-constructed you ended up with a big milk duct at the front under your nipple whereas they're usually further back inside the breast. It would explain why it fills up and could be why you leak as there will be direct pressure on the duct rather than it being surrounded by fat.


If it's painful, red or hot you neeeeeeeeeeeeed to see your gp hun. :)





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Thursday, October 27th 2005, 5:57pm

I knew you'd have some sort of answer!! Can you get mastitis before birth??

xxx








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Bells

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Thursday, October 27th 2005, 6:47pm

You can. Anyone can get it, pregnant or not but it's not very common. Would think that with you having had surgery that you're more prone to blockages and infections than anyone else BUT they can be treated easily and don't necessarily stop you from breastfeeding.

If you're worried then see the doc but don't get stressed about it as it's very easily cleared up in the majority of cases.





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Monday, November 7th 2005, 11:14am

a great thread :D

one question - when is a good time to introduce a baby to a bottle feed?

I've heard from friends who have had nightmares because they have had to go back to work, but their baby hasnt taken to the bottle even though it is still breast milk. Other girls at work said it was because they left it too late to introduce.

Anyone with any ideas/thoughts/opinions?

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Monday, November 7th 2005, 12:38pm

Ummm, I had to put my 1st ds on the bottle becasue he was very hungry and my milk went very thin and he wasn't getting enough.

I did try alternating first though. I went from boob to bottle alternating each feed - hoping that my milk would thicken up. It didn't, but I never had any problem with getting him on the bottle or putting back on the boob. Eventually I put him on the bottle and I actually found it easier because I could tell exactly how much he was having each feed.

I hope this helps.
LR
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I have 2 beautiful boys 8 & 6, and one beautiful girl
1st ICSI - 15 eggs - Oct 05 - BFN
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I'm a single parent.





Bells

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Monday, November 7th 2005, 1:46pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Sunshine
a great thread :D

one question - when is a good time to introduce a baby to a bottle feed?

I've heard from friends who have had nightmares because they have had to go back to work, but their baby hasnt taken to the bottle even though it is still breast milk. Other girls at work said it was because they left it too late to introduce.

Anyone with any ideas/thoughts/opinions?



Yes Sunshine, I had the same problem with my first. I didn't try her with a bottle for a few months and by then she was having none of it.

With my second I gave her expressed breastmilk after a few days, partly because I had thrush, mastitis and cracked nipples and partly because I wanted to make sure that she would take a bottle if I ever needed to leave her. It seemed to work.

If I were you I would introduce a little bit of expressed milk a few days after your milk has 'come in' (only an ounce or so) and offer it before you would normally give a breastfeed. Gradually increase the amount that you're expressing and the amount that baby is taking so that you can give a complete feed by bottle, then two feeds by bottle. Try to do it during the day and keep your evening and night feeds the same.

I can't remember when you're going back to work, is it about 6 weeks? If so then you need to be expressing mid morning and early afternoon and giving the milk in a bottle, eventually dropping the daytime breastfeeds but still keeping up the supply by expressing at the normal feeding time.

Can you express at work? It might take some organisation but it works for some. If not then you might find that formula is the only way to go during the day. The problem is that the less you feed the less milk you make so introducing formula is usually the start of the viscious cycle when you're not making 'enough' milk. Maybe you could express one feed for during the day and supplement it with formula so: 10am formula, 1pm breastmilk, 4 pm formula?


The important thing is that you continue with the evening and night feeds as this is when your body goes into milk making mode. Don't worry about how much baby takes. Breastmilk isn't the same as formula and so as long as baby is satisfied it doesn't matter whether it's taking a couple of ounces every few hours. You'll hear bottle feeding Mums boasting that their baby can take 13 ounces every few hours but formula is a 'filler' whereas breastmilk is very concentrated so it's quality not quantity that's important.

Also don't forget that what you eat is as important as when you are pregnant. So while you're at work you need to stuff your face all day (bummer!!! :D).

....and..... babies all react differently to different teats so you may need to spend a bit of money on several types. The Haberman feeder is supposed to be VERY good for breastfed babies as they still have to suck rather than the milk pouring out. (as recommended by Tracy Hogg the Baby Whisperer.) (link here) The teats are also supposed to be very soft so shouldn't be too 'confusing' for baby


If you need to try a formula feed then the very first, thin ones are better for a breastfed baby. The thickers, 'hungry baby' ones can upset digestive bacteria causing constipation and colic.

Right...:D I think that's all (for now :rolleyes: :D) Good luck Sunshine x x x





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Monday, November 7th 2005, 7:26pm

The breastfeeding counsellor who did a session at our NCT class told us that you shouldn't mix breast and bottles before the baby is 6 weeks old as it will confuse it - apparently there is a different form of sucking needed for each.

It was more the mix of breast and bottle itself rather than the type of milk she was talking about, just to make it clear.

I would like to express some milk to allow DH to do some feeds, but if things go to plan I'll only do it after 6 weeks.

Confusing!

Bookworm
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First IVF started 11/03/05, amazing BFP 29/04/05 :D
Beautiful DS, born 29/12/05 [zx203]

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Beautiful DS2, born 22/04/07 happydance

Bells

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Monday, November 7th 2005, 7:58pm

It is very early to be expressing milk but Sunshine does need to return to work so she can't leave it for 6 weeks then just hope that her baby will take to a bottle. Far better to introduce it gradually as part of a plan.

If Sunshine expresses a tiny amount of milk (1oz) at first then her baby will get used to having a teat in its mouth. Yes it will cause some confusion, no it's not ideal but if Sunshine can try to keep the rest of her breastfeeds throughout the evening and night then she has a good chance of succeeding.

I chose to express after a few days because I needed to save my sanity. It's not really recommended as milk production can drop and health professionals know that if they say it's ok to express then Mums will (in many cases) find that their milk production reduces and therefore they will end up feeding artificial milks as a supplement. I understood the implications and also knew how to increase my milk production so I felt ok doing it.

For Mums who have longer maternity leave and for whom the occasional expressed feed is needed for a rare evening out then of course it's not adviseable to be expressing every day and getting baby used to having a bottle. For Sunshine the ultimate goal is for her to be able to continue to breastfeed in the evenings and at night while baby is happily taking a bottle of whatever suits them both throughout the day.





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Tuesday, November 8th 2005, 3:51am

yep Bells - you have it right.

I'm going on maternity at 38 weeks (hopefully) and have 16 weeks of leave, so at worst my DD/S would be 12 weeks when I have to find someone else to feed them during the day.

We do have a mother's room at work, but only 6 people at one time are allowed the key, and it is a single room and for some reason the company is a baby-making factory so by the time I come off leave those 6 keys will have been taken. Worse comes to worse, I can go home to express as I only live 10 minutes from work. I just have to make up the time somehow else.

My ideal would be to be able for the baby to bottlefeed whilst I'm at work (either expressed or formula - depends how it works out) and breastfeed when I am not at work.

I think if all goes well that I will try and introduce the bottle at around 4 weeks just very gradually and see how it goes. Hopefully that should be late enough to reduce confusion without being too late that the baby refuses.

It's all so confusing.....

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Tuesday, November 8th 2005, 9:09am

My DD switches between the two with no problems at all. So long as it is milk she does not seem to care where it comes from!

Initially I used a haverman feeder with her because her strong suck meant normal bottles were causing her to choke. The haverman feeder also does not drip between mouthfuls so allows baby to take a rest - just like breastfeeding.

Maybe you should get one and try that first? They are available on the internet and if you have discovery health channel check out the baby whisperer as she uses them a lot with breastfeeding mothers.

DD is now on the MAM bottles as it allows her to take a bigger feed as you have to work hard to get the milk out of the haverman (just like breast feeding) and the haverman does not have a lid - not much use for travelling/taking baby out for the day). My way around this was to use the lindam microwave steriliser bags (only 3 mins!) and then pour the water out and keep the sterilised bottle in there until I needed to use it. Using the pre-made cartons of aptamil is a life saver too!

xx
x

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Tuesday, November 8th 2005, 1:41pm

Princess - how old is she now? weeks wise I mean?

to be honest, the only teats I can easily get hold of are the Avent ones. and we dont have a microwave.

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Wednesday, November 9th 2005, 8:35am

She was ten days yesterday and weighs 13lb 5oz!

Cant you order off the internet for home delivery? Thats a shame.
x

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Wednesday, November 9th 2005, 10:26am

Quoted

Originally posted by Princesspat
She was ten days yesterday and weighs 13lb 5oz!



10 DAYS???? :D

I was sat there thinking..no! it wasn't only 10 days ago was it? ?( 13.5lb at 10 days old 8o


ok ok she must be 10 weeks :D





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Wednesday, November 9th 2005, 11:25am

lol

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Wednesday, November 9th 2005, 1:20pm

you may jest but my DS was over 10lb when he was born!!!

Yes my mistake she is ten weeks :D
x

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "PrincessPat" (Jan 16th 2007, 12:53am)


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Wednesday, November 9th 2005, 1:30pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Princesspat
you may jest but my DS was 10lb 5oz born!!!



Yooowwwchhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! 8o 8o 8o





pirhanachomp

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Wednesday, November 9th 2005, 1:45pm

all the boys in mine and Dp's family were over 10lb too!!

here's hoping for an early birth!!!

tee hee!

Jessica x x

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Wednesday, November 9th 2005, 1:48pm

Dont panic just yet, mine were all completely different!
x

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "PrincessPat" (Jan 16th 2007, 12:53am)


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Sunday, April 9th 2006, 6:28pm

Bumpety bump bump for Geogie :)





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Monday, April 10th 2006, 5:02am

hey gals - thought I would give my experience a type-out

I did try expressing when DS was a few weeks old, but the amounts were small (25-50ml) and I got quite disheartened. I didnt realise that this was all that was needed at the time.

He took the bottle really well at 4 weeks but then I had a gap, and at 6 weeks he refused the bottle! major panic ensued.

in the end, we found a different teat (Pigeon brand, peristaltic nipple type) rather than the Avent one which was too hard for him, and the nanny or DH gave him the bottle rather than me (so he couldnt "smell" mummy).

a few things I have found out:

* I find the initial start-up quite painful, but this is because my nipples are flat. I cant do the quick pump at the beginning, so I just relax now and do gentle pumps until it is a bit less sore, and then after a minute or two the milk starts flowing (yes it does take a minute or two - literally). I got stressed at first because I thought the milk would never flow. Now I know it does, it just takes time to come through.

* I also found gently massaging the breast during pumping helped empty it better

* the amount of milk I can express varies - between 80-165ml - it's very psychological as I need to be by myself, no baby crying, no TV, no husband talking, no phone, and relaxed and reasonably untired. the better I am the more milk I produce.

* morning is a better time than night-time as my boobs are less sore, and more full

* I try to make sure I have a spare 100ml in the fridge at all times, so that if I only pump 80ml then I know I have enough to make up the bottle to 125ml (seems about the right amount for DS). If I dont have backup I tendto get a bit stressed and then of course I produce less! Producing on demand for a bottle IS stressful.

* I bought the Aent handpump, but I found it hard work, and treated myself to the Avent ISIS duo. I dont think I will ever use the dual option, but the electronic pump is really cool - you manually express until you have a rythmn and strength that you like and then the machine copies precisely what you have been doing! :D and you can switch it off and go back to manual whenever you want!

if you have any questions - just ask!

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Monday, April 10th 2006, 10:51am

thanks thats great sunshine.

How often are you giving Peter a bottle at present? Do you think it has affected your milk supply? and one last thing (!) how long does it keep in the fridge?



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Monday, April 10th 2006, 12:26pm

once a day, on weekdays, for the 10am feed

I am going back to work part-time in 4 weeks time for 3 weeks (mornings only) because I am using up 8 days of annual leave spread across means 16 days of part-time, and the 10am feed will be the one DS needs to take (I'm lucky I managed to negotiate this with work)

I'm only expressing on weekdays though, just before the feed. I dont express at the weekend and I dont think so far that it has affected my supply. But as I said, I like to keep a back-up volume in the fridge as DS downs 125ml (about 4oz) and sometimes/usually I can only express about 100ml (3 1/2oz) at the most

according to La Leche League the milk keeps for up to 8 days in the fridge in the main compartment (not door!) which is great, as I think basically you shouldnt need to ever freeze your milk in normal circumstances

I've just seen that Avent are bringing out an electirc Uno pump - go for that! They only had the Duo when I bought and it is a bit bulky to use. But I've paid for it now, so have to use it!

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Monday, April 10th 2006, 3:48pm

thanks for that, gosh it keeps for a long time - that makes things less complicated


This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Primrose" (Apr 10th 2006, 3:48pm)


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Monday, April 10th 2006, 4:07pm

8 days?? I was told only 2 or 3 days, so I used to freeze it if I didn't need it. Information changes! Good news - I'm a bit surprised though, because cow's milk doesn't keep that long...

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Monday, April 10th 2006, 5:13pm

I was told up to 48 hours in the fridge and three months in the freezer though information does change all the time so Sun's info will probably be more up to date.

It would've made it easier if I'd known that 2 years ago.... I wouldn't have wasted half as much. :rolleyes:





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Monday, April 10th 2006, 5:15pm

I'm sure I was told at my recent NCT class that the anti bacterial properties of breast milk actually are better than first thought & that you keep breast milk in the fridge for up to 8 days! I'll check that with the teacher tonight though & I'm sure that will only be in the UK though.


Will update you when I'm sure ?(

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Monday, April 10th 2006, 5:53pm

I was reading something recently about cows milk and how unpastuerised milk will last longer than pastuerised because of the balance of bacteria. I wonder if the same applies to breastmilk, it would make sense as it's wonderful, amazing, magical stuff :]





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Tuesday, April 11th 2006, 1:56am

Bagpuss is right - and weirdly, the longer the milk is out the more anti-bacterial-y (?!) (better) the milk gets! 8o

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Tuesday, April 11th 2006, 8:01am

Yep - checked last night & breast milk's anti bacterial properties do actually increase the longer it is kept but the recc time is 8 days in the fridge!

Miraculous stuff hey?

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Sunday, April 30th 2006, 9:43am

The actual expressing bit is going well but at the moment I'm just storing all mine as Jessica won't take the bottle from DH :rolleyes:. Obviously this kind of defeats the object if she will only take it from me!

Don't know how we are going to get over this one! I could really do with a good night out at the pub TBH! Tried breast shaped bottle and bog standard one, she's having none of it - (mind you though he just has to go in and say 'you should be asleep now' to her at night and she drops off immediately so he does have his uses at other times :D) Has anyone else had this? Have tried being there, holding the bottle whilst she is in DH arms to completely leaving the house - only time it has ever worked was when Jessica was asleep, she took an ounce from DH before realising what was going on - after that zilch! Tried catching her between feeds or just before feeds (thanks for suggestion Bells) and also when she was really hungry, still nothing!


This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Primrose" (Apr 30th 2006, 9:46am)


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Sunday, April 30th 2006, 11:32am

Is there a grandparent or friend that will have Jessica for you and try her with the bottle? Someone who won't worry about it, will just do it and if she doesn't take it won't get worked up?

I think that DH will have to keep trying. If you give her the bottle she will smell your familiar smell and want you instead. It's likely that she will only take a small amount at first compared with a normal breastfeed but even a small amount is a step in the right direction.

I'd be tempted to try the Haberman feeder that Tracy Hogg suggested. She had success with that when Mums were in the same position as you. Failing that then a hunt for different teats would be my next suggestion.





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Sunday, April 30th 2006, 1:05pm

georgie, I use the Avent bottles with a Pigeon peristaltic newborn teat. the nanny or DH gives it to DS. Never heard of the brand before, but in desperation one day at the supermarket found this one, and we threw out the Avent teats!

http://www.google.com.sg/search?hl=en&q=…c+teat%22&meta=

Occasionally when he has a sore tummy he will throw a fit and refuse the bottle, but we just keep trying with it.

I make sure that the person giving the bottle goes through the whole pre-feed ritual as well - ie they change DS, take him to the feeding chair, put a bib on him, and by then he is STARVING (lol) and he just goes away at the bottle like a little trooper!

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44

Wednesday, July 5th 2006, 1:54pm

Bump tiddly ump ump for the Mummy Milk ladies :D





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Tuesday, August 15th 2006, 8:18pm

I've started giving DD some baby rice and this week a bit of veg. As she is no longer a tiny tot and I've come to the stage when I want a bit of me back. To enable me to have some freedom I'm making a real effort with bottle feeding EBM. My aim is to be able to let DH take DD out for the whole day and for me to have an evening out :D.

This week I've had some success using a breast bottle for her middle of the night feed (around 2-3am). She doesn't suck the bottle properly but she is at least drinking it in her own way and isn't howling the house down! After feeding her with the bottle I am currently then expressing - I am getting loads (last night I had to use two bottles 8o) So I take from that she was feeding quite a lot at night? (although with the bottle the most she has taken is 2oz)

I was then going to move on to substitue a day and/or evening feed with EBM too, just to keep the momentum going now. My question is when will this start to adversely effect my milk supply? Its trying to weigh up, on the one hand, keeping up the practice of DD feeding from a bottle and, on the other, not adversely affecting my milk supply.

PS if you go out for a good night out (ie if you get howling drunk!) when do you resume bf? I have assumed I'd have to express and chuck EBM until mid-morning the next day is that correct (can find nothing in any books :rolleyes:))


This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Primrose" (Aug 15th 2006, 8:21pm)


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Wednesday, August 16th 2006, 10:08am

nah - dont chuck the mummy milk - it's better than any replacement if it only has been alcohol you were indulging in!

for expressing, I found that as long as the time that I fed or expressed was the same day in day out then the milk supply didnt drop. well, it did for a short while but that's because my period was arriving.

I first started expressing at 10am and giving the 10:30am feed by bottle from around 9 weeks old, which was a godsend so that when I went to work DS was used to taking the bottle.

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Wednesday, August 16th 2006, 11:01am

Ah thanks Sunshine thats really helpful - it obviously didn't effect your supply in anyway because you have been bf Peter right up to recently haven't you.

Re: the EBM - won't the alcohol harm DD? (no don't do anything other than beer - waaaayyy past all that other stuff, not that I was really into it in the first place!)



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Wednesday, August 16th 2006, 11:46am

Primrose, if you drank so much that it would affect your milk enough to affect your baby you probably wouldnt be able to express.

I never pushed the limit though - the most I ever had was 3 glasses of wine - saying that, it was enough to get me very wobbly lightweight that I am! :rolleyes:

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Wednesday, August 16th 2006, 6:28pm

Yeah - I've had the cautionary 2 glasses but I was getting myself geared up for a good ole night out - maximum I would drink is about 4 pints (about 8 units). Even the peadeatrician in hospital didn't know how much passed through and someone told me today that actually the amount that does is negligible - that can't be right though or else they wouldn't give the '2 glasses recommendation'?



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Sunday, August 20th 2006, 11:45am

The way in which expressing can affect your supply is if you do it constantly for a couple of days. If it's just for one feed a day, you can do it indefinitely, I'd say. Or, if it's just for one solid 24-hour day, you'd probably be all right too.

With DS1, I had a piece of work that took me away for two and a half days and two nights, so DH used lots of frozen bottles (and a bit of formula) and I pumped (and chucked away) for all I was worth when I wasn't working (morning, evening, night-time) to try to keep my supply going. I have to say that my supply was never quite the same again. DS1 was just over seven months old at that point. It was good enough, and I carried on bf, but thereafter his afternoon feed was always formula, mostly because I wanted/needed the freedom, but I did feel I was producing a bit less.
Had a total of three fresh IVF cycles and three frozen transfers (embryos and blastocysts)
m/c @ 11 weeks in 2007 DS1 and DS2 born from fresh IVF cycles :D
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