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Indiechick

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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 9:38am

To co sleep or not to co sleep?

Hi Ladies

Although Pip and Squeak are totally adorable they are driving me insane with a lack of sleep! Since they were born (and prob for a few weeks before they were born) I haven't had one nights sleep and just recently it's getting worse. I am dead on my feet and every bone in my body aches from exhaustion!

Squeak did sleep though the night and Pip was only waking once until we went on holiday and all hell let loose with them both waking 3 or 4 times a night EACH!

Since we have been home it has slightly improved but not much. The last two nights have been particularly difficult with Friday night Squeak waking 8 times and Pip 2 and last night Pip waking 3 times and Squeak 3.

A couple of weeks ago we tried zero tolerance and I left them to cry for a while and they always settled themselves eventually but I found it incredibly difficult as it went against my instinct and gradually they took longer and longer to settle leading me to believe they needed a feed.

They both go to sleep in their own cots at 7pm with out a peep and will remain asleep until 2ish with a dream feed at 10.30pm but from 2 onwards it goes crazy. It's a constant roll of me getting one up feeding them on my side in our bed, me and baby falling asleep and then when I wake up I take them back to their own cot only for the other to wake up shortly after!

I have tried dummies, water, rubbing, patting, getting dh to settle them etc but all to no avail. However if they come in the bed we all seem to sleep better. We have a huge bed and are aware of the saftey precautions and so it seems like the most logical solution to me so as both boys and mummy and daddy get some sleep.

My problem is it just feels so naughty or as if I'm giving in to them. I also worry that if we start this at 5 months when will we stop and how difficult will it be to stop? I love having my boys next to me and feel that we will all benefit as a family but am I right or wrong?

Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated!


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MacMummy

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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 11:29am

Oh Indie, poor you... I have a feeling that I have all this to look forward to as well!!

It is a difficult one and I am not there yet, so can only comment on my close friends experience with her little boy... after many, many sleepless nights, she gave in and let him into their bed and they all slept like logs!! She decided that she would just deal with settling him in his own cot/bed further down the line, which she did and although it took a little while, it was less stressful as she was fully rested due to having some proper sleep for a good few months!!

I know that I will probably be shot down in flames for this but, as you say, taking the safety precautions into account, I would just bring them in with you, that is what I will do with the girls..... they are only wee for such a short while and as their Mummy, I believe that we are here totally & utterly for them :D. This option seems to provide calm all round, they need this and so do you... lack of sleep is a major problem and my hospital believe that it can lead to post natal depression, so get safely snuggling up!!

MM xxxx

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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 12:05pm

Indiechick, you are doing sterling work there breastfeeding twins, very well done to you.
We do exactly what you are suggesting, DD settles herself in her crib until she wakes for a feed then gets in with us and feeds lying down. It works really well for us. Have you looked at the link Bubble posted in this thread? Breastfeed in your sleep
Some reassuring info here http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/t102200.asp
and here
http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/co_slepping.html
(exernal links not FZ endorsed)
and this comment from Dr William Sears, well known researcher and writer on child health and breastfeeding and father of four
"DR. SEARS SIDS HYPOTHESIS:

I believe that in most cases SIDS is a sleep disorder, primarily a disorder of arousal and breathing control during sleep. All the elements of natural mothering, especially breastfeeding and sharing sleep, benefit the infant's breathing control and increase the mutual awareness between mother and infant so that their arousability is increased and the risk of SIDS decreased."
...which sums up how I feel about it. IMO anything that keeps you breastfeeding longer reduces the risks of hundreds of nasty things, including SIDS and co sleeping so you all get enough sleep and you get that wonderful closeness helps keep you breastfeeding. They are babies for about 5 minutes and you will soon be looking back and wishing they would do more than wipe their face and say 'muuuuum' every time you so much as kiss their faces. Enjoy it.





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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 12:16pm

Quoted

Originally posted by MacMummy
I know that I will probably be shot down in flames for this but, as you say, taking the safety precautions into account, I would just bring them in with you, that is what I will do with the girls.....


No you won't be, I think there's quite a few of us doing it. It annoys me that when I had DD1, I wasn't given both sides of the argument, the advice was 'Thou shalt not co sleep' and I really feel that I missed out. Now when she gets in our bed, she is all elbows and knees and its not as much fun!





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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 12:28pm

Morning!

I felt a bit like you - a bit guilty about co-sleeping but we've done it/still doing it and I can't say 'give it a go' enough!

DD2 goes in her cot from bedtime (7ish til anywhere between 2-5) and then wakes up. (She's not hungry - I'm thinking cold or lonely?!?) She always goes into bed with one of us at that point til morning. We've kept a double bed in her room and either DH or me (normally DH to be fair to him) will just pick her out and get into the double with her ( I then get our king size to myself until DD1 comes in for her morning cuddle!).

We haven't really let her cry in the night as we didn't want DD1 woken up. This suits us all, the main thing being we all get some sleep! After having 2 years before DD1 slept through, I don't really care how we do it as long as we all get a good night's sleep and wake up ready to face the day!

Having said all that, neither of us are smokers and we follow all the safety precautions etc - I know you're sensible and will do it 'right' but just thought I should add the need to follow the guidelines at the end of this post!

Give it a go - hopefully you'll get some sleep and some extra lovely baby cuddles too!

x






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Indiechick

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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 12:31pm

Awwww ladies thank you so much! I know that it makes sense for all of us I just needed to be given permission if that makes sense!

DH is all for it and can't understand why we didn't do it in the first place but to be honest they were too tiny as newborns and I was too scared! They are so much more robust now.

Mrs J -I had a tear in my eye with your post, your so right it will be gone in a blink of an eye, soon I'll be embarrassing them at the school gates! loved the slide show, how many times have we all been through that! Also Bells' comment about as they sleep longer they spend longer in their cots and are then weaned off co sleeping has given me confidence. I am happy that the boys can self settle during all daytime naps and when going to bed and so if they need a little extra cuddle and snaffle in the middle of the night who am I to deny them!

I feel 100% happier already, thank girls!

I'll let you know how it goes tonight!!!

x


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Indiechick

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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 12:34pm

Thanks Jodie, your so right it needs to be done properly and that's an interesting point . . . .who cares how long it's fo as long as we all get some shut eye!

x


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Indiechick

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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 3:03pm

Oh and another thought is that I give them a dream feed at 10.30 and 11pm but it doesn't seem to get them sleeping any longer for example squeak had a dream feed at 11ish last night but was up at 12.40pm after sleeping soundly from 7pm - 11pm do you think it's worth dropping the dreamfeed and then I could go to bed earlier???


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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 7:31pm

I dropped Gs feed at about the same age so if its not making a difference maybe give it a go. I felt maybe he was deep asleep and me waking him to feed (albeit not properly) was disturbing him. He did sleep though (bar pesky teething!!) after that so ob didnt miss it and took more during the day. At the end of the day though do what you think is right, if it doesnt work you can always swap back. x





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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 7:33pm

Sorry meant to add we co sleep on occasion to, he does sleep in his own cot but if hes having a bad night (seems to get nightmares sometimes dont know what it is really!?) he does come in with us.





Indiechick

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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 7:42pm

Thanks Gem, I'm thinking the same that I'm disturbng their longest sleep and it seems pointless as it doesn't seem to make them go any longer!

I have high hopes for tonight but must remain realistic otherwise I could be very very disappointed :bawl:


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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 8:32pm

I'm in total agreement about not waking them up for a late night feed. I used to wake ds up to feed him before we went to bed in the hope that he would sleep later.It didn't make a blind bit of difference - he still wakened at 4am no matter what time he had gone to sleep. I used to bring him into bed and feed lying down, then fall asleep until he wakened for his next feed - great!!

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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 8:53pm

hi indiechick,

just to reiterate what everyone else is saying its a yes yes yes to co sleeping. my eldest boy slept with me in my bed and i foolishly decided to put him in his own room at 7.5 months. now it is a coincidence i think but 6 wks later he died of cot death, he wouldnt settle in his own room, kept waking, where with me he had pretty much slept thru. but i as am a smoker, although i never smoke upstairs my hv had advised that he was at a higher risk sleeping in my bed, thru the smoking. so i moved him. that was such a good move ....... not!

my 2nd child is now 13 yrs, and he slept with me until he was about 2.5 years. again i never smoked upstairs and even now occasionally if he gets chance he will sleep with me (fully clothed). it averages at about once every 6 months now. we are thatnkfully still close, although he's hitting teenage years and a bit stroppy.

my third child is now 22 months old. he now has a mattress in my room but more often than not he sleeps with me and my dh. at the moment im trying to train him to seperate slightly but its not really working. i b f this child and found it so much easier to sleep cos you simply lob teat out and you both go bk to sleep while feeding. it was lovely actually.

all my 3 children slept with me from birth. my last 2 are still here to tell the tale.

i see your a brilliant mum and you go ahead and you do what you feel is right for you, your dh and your children. we have a tough enough time getting these kids enjoy them, every single one of them is an absolute miracle. dont let your hv dictate how you bring your children up. no-one knows them as good as you

take care

jade

xxxx
After a long hard infertility journey, i am now reluctantly done

Indiechick

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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 8:55pm

Thanks Fi'smum!

Darn it my plans are scuppered already. someone knocked on the door, the dog went ballistic and the boys woke up. One quickly went back to sleep but the other is being a scamp . . . .oh well the night is young!

x


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Indiechick

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Sunday, September 20th 2009, 8:58pm

Jade thank you so much for your input. I am so sorry to hear about your son but glad to hear about your lovely close relationship with yuor youngest two!

x


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Monday, September 21st 2009, 8:08am

I agree re the dream feed, the only thing it ever did for us is make her nappy get wetter sooner so she woke earlier in the morning!





Indiechick

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Monday, September 21st 2009, 2:21pm

Well last night was a bit hit and miss! We had a nightmare trying to settle both boys after the dog woke them up and so they were fed again one at 8ish and one at 9. I didn't do the dreamfeed and have a vague memory of one of them getting in the bed at 11.30 (can't even remember which one Ooops!) and then the other sometime later. They both went crazy for a feed at 2.30 which I had to wake up properly for (don't think I could manage tandem feeding asleep!)However with both of them tucked up in bed with me I had the best sleep I've had in ages. I know they both fed during the night but I don't know when or how many times . . . . .bliss and so we are all happy bunnies today! Let's hope it continues!

Thanks for all your help ladies!

x


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Monday, September 21st 2009, 4:11pm

:D Yeah thats good aslong as you feel better and the boys slept better thats the main thing! x





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Monday, September 21st 2009, 5:25pm

I was lurking here and decided to have the courage to post.. I'm feeling a little superstitious about posting on twin related threads, only being just over 7 weeks pregnant but I'm so curious about this as I'm still sleeping with my 2 yr 9 mth old son and have done since birth. I'm anticipating this will continue until he's ready to move and we're thinking about how it might be with 5 in the bed!

I'm not the slightest bit guilty about co-sleeping as I'm half asian and it would be wierd to my family were I not to co sleep. Having said that, most of my friends rib me about it, I don't let it bother me.

We sleep on a very low bed which is the same level as our son's cot bed. We've taken one side off that and pushed it up against our's (taking sensible safety precautions, especially when he was smaller) and I don't have to get out of bed to feed him, I just reach over. When I was bf our night time routine would be: I would feed him, put him down at 7 in his cot and reach over to bring him into our bed when he woke for a feed whenever that was in the night (usually about 2 ish - I agree with all the other comments about dream feeding - didn't seem to give us any benefit). If he'll go back in his cot, then I put him back but don't make an issue out of it. If he's a bit poorly, or needs a bit more cuddling, he stays in with us. I just try and be flexible and make sure that the co-sleeping is for him - not for me!

(If I get to that stage - fingers crossed) we've already said we'll come up with some arrangement that will allow us to co-sleep with the twins - two double mattresses on the floor to start, perhaps...?

As with any new routine, I'm sure it'll take your LOs a while to settle into it but I've definately had more sleep with cosleeping than I would otherwise have had (considering I breastfed til 18 months) and I've also got the most contented, cooperative, secure little boy a mother could ever hope for - people comment on it all the time and I'm sure it's because of all the security he's had in the care arrangments we provide. That sounds slightly arrogant perhaps and I'm sure his personality counts for a fair amount but the research seems to back this up - if you haven't already read it I love the Science of Parenting (my baby bible).

You have to do what is right for you and I don't work so I can operate on a hazy level if we've had a bad night, but I hope it works out for you, Indie, and I'll be watching this thread with great interest.

R x







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Indiechick

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Monday, September 21st 2009, 7:44pm

Crikey, didn't know how many of you ladies co slept with your little ones, it's so reassuring!

Roxy - LOL I'll keep you updated . . .there were 5 in the bed and the little one said :snigger:

I've decided to look on it as a life style/ parenting style choice and am therefore guilt free!
x


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Monday, September 21st 2009, 8:09pm

My two sleep well in there own cots. But the past couple of nights N has been poorly and has had to come in with us. However in the early hours I put her back in her cot and she sleeps ok. I don't sleep well when she is with us even at nearly two I get paranoid and check she is breathing ok. Just do what works best for you. My friend breastfeeds but has slowly at 18 weeks gone on to formula as her little one gets very hungry and finds that her little one sleeps better now. My other friend with twins dream feeds her boy at 11pm with formula and that sees him through the night. As I say just do what you feel is best for you.
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Tuesday, September 22nd 2009, 3:50pm

This thread is really interesting!

We have often have H sleep in with us. Sometimes, just for an hour or so, when he wakes early, sometimes most of the night, when he has bad nights, and it can be for an odd night, or has been for several weeks in a row sometimes!.....He always settles really well in with us, and it has meant we all get some sleep!

It's ironic really, I remember before having him, thinking I'd never do it, and now my views are so different about it!!!!....live and learn I suppose!!

We haven't done it with L yet, I will admit I'm a bit nervous, as she is so small, and tbh has been pretty good at night, and settling in her moses basket....but, I am sure there will be nights, in the coming months, when she will sleep in with us, and this time round, I won't worry half as much with H, about if I'm doing the right thing etc, as long as we do it safely, and we are all happy and getting sleep, that's what's important!

The dream feed thing is interesting too. I used to wake H at 10pm, but it was often a struggle to get him to feed. So with L, I'm letting her do her own thing at the moment, as she is still so young, and just seeing if, as she gets bigger, she sets her own pattern with feeding. Even now, most nights she feeds around 8pm, midnightish, and once more in the night, which I don't think is too bad, so am going with the flow this time, and being led by her!

xxx



<

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Tuesday, September 22nd 2009, 5:53pm

Another co-sleeper here hun! It works a treat for us with all of us sleeping much better.
I always put C into her cot first at bedtime so that i get the evening to relax (well do the ironing anyway) and can go to bed when i want and then when she wakes for a feed at about 1am, i put her in with us and feed her in my sleep as and when she wants it. Tried a dream feed for a week but made no difference so soon gave that up and just get her when she tells me too :snigger:

I have a bedrail on my side so that i can feed from either boob without her (or me) falling out!




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Tuesday, September 22nd 2009, 8:45pm

And another here :D

Like Michelle, we put baby bubble down in her cot (which is a co-sleeper one so attached to the bed) and as and when she needs a feed she comes into bed and generally stays there - unless I am so tired I don't trust myself and I move her back. My midwife positively encouraged co-sleeping in the first few weeks.

She's now :shush: sleeping through the night so we're considering moving her into her own room. :bawl:

The dream feed has never worked for us either.

I look at it as a lifestyle/parenting choice as well Indie and if it's working for you, go for it!

x

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




Indiechick

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Wednesday, September 23rd 2009, 8:03pm

Yay! I no longer feel like I need to be a closet co sleeper :snigger:

Things have been going well in the Indie household for all of us! Night time is so less stressful simply because I know they are feeding but not when. I was obsessed before at looking at the clock when they woke but now I don't even bother . . . .I'm sure my neighbours are happier too!

Ohhhh Bubble you poor thing, just pretend to DH that she's still waking or failing that give her a little prod each night :snigger:

Michelle - where did you get your bed rail from, I was thinking about getting one because that's my only fear as I have one of them either side. Currently I'm in the middle of the bed with them two and DH is perched on the thinest slither! I could give him a bit more room if we had a rail.

I haven't done a dream feed for a few days mainly because the little blighters have been waking befoe I would have done it anyway. I think they are really starting to get hungry and needing to be weaned sooner than I thought! :8o:


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Wednesday, September 23rd 2009, 8:23pm

clap clap for better nights!

They're probably just going through 'another' growth spurt hun - baby bubble woke loads for feeds between about 4 1/2 and 6 months. We held out until the 6 months to wean and she's slept through the night since happydance

Waiting until 6 months makes a lot of sense in so many ways - not least that you don't have to faff around with what to give them - and it's only 3 weeks to go. Did you get the BLW book in the end which describes the 'true' signs of needing solids?

x

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




Indiechick

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Wednesday, September 23rd 2009, 9:04pm

Your right Bubble, I need to hold on it's only 3 weeks! Yes I did get the book and I do think they are ready, well almost! I feel really bad because they watch me all the time and Pip cries his eyes out when I eat or even have a cup of tea, he smacks his lips and gets all fustrated . . . . bless him!


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Wednesday, September 23rd 2009, 9:27pm

Glad to hear I'm not the only one co-sleeping as well!!

C goes to bed in her own cot in her shared bedroom at about 7:30pm, roughly the same time as her big sister - who decides that at about midnight it's time to join mummy and daddy in bed! We chuck her out when litt'un wakes up (anywhere between 2am and 5am currently). Littl'un then either stays in bed with us, or we put her into the cradle in our bedroom and hope she settles!!

Did have a bit of a disaster the other night when she decided to wriggle herself out of bed and landed with a bit of a bump on the floor - no harm done (fortunately!) Perhaps we ought to get a bed rail too, as I'm now paranoid about her doing it again - she wriggles around in circles in her cot, and we find her lying crossways at the head of the cot!!! ?(


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Wednesday, September 23rd 2009, 11:32pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Indiechick
Michelle - where did you get your bed rail from, I was thinking about getting one because that's my only fear as I have one of them either side. Currently I'm in the middle of the bed with them two and DH is perched on the thinest slither! I could give him a bit more room if we had a rail.

I got mine from Tk Maxx. I didn't realise at the time but there were actually two in the pack so can have one on both sides if i need to. They do it on the tesco website here as well but it was £10 cheaper in tk maxx.

http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.202-0275.aspx (Not FZ endorsed)




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Friday, October 16th 2009, 6:37pm

hi indie

we moved a couple of wks ago and our b'room is now big enough to have a single bed up the wall and the double bed jammed right up to single bed. the first wk oz automatically got into our bed and i was good and got him out put him in his own bed and lay with him while he drifted off. then when he was asleep i got into my own bed. dont leave the room at all when my babies are sleeping (reasons already gone over)

now he's automatically getting into his own bed wahey!!!!! he still wants me to lie with him until he drops off but in the main he stays in his own bed, at least till i get up then he crawls in with his dad until about 9 am. i get up at about 6.30 most mornings. so we're still co sleeping sort of. my sex life hasnt improved due to stress of moving and chest infection right now, i feel like a bag of poo tied up ugly.

soon oz will be ready to move into his own room i think but the big question is will i be ready? i think the answer is a big fat NO somehow.

but my lovely, keep up the good work sounds like youre doing really well
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Saturday, October 17th 2009, 2:48pm

Aww Jade you paint such a lovely image 'a bag of poo . . .' :snigger: Sorry to hear your feeling rough! You mentioned the words 'Sex Life' what is that :snigger:????

Anyway glad all is going well with your little one! Don't rush in to moving him before your both ready, I've really come to the realisation that they will only be little once and so make the most of it!

Hope your feeling better soon!
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Saturday, October 17th 2009, 7:16pm

Indie I am still shoving Lochlan in bed with me when he wakes in the night too. It's the only way I get any sleep. I am currently considering moving his cot into our room, and taking the side off and shoving it up against my bed just to make life easier. And while I am at it, I am gonna put a little junior bed into Lochlans room and kick DH into it cos his snoring is p***sing me right off!! I think I would much rather sleep with my stinky little nappy head right now than my husband! :snigger:
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Saturday, October 17th 2009, 7:39pm

We co slept with DD2, DD1 was not interested one bit in sleeping in our bed, she is now aged 3 1/2 :rolleyes:

DD2 slept in our bed pretty much right away and stayed there till she was 1 when I decided to put her in her own and cot and she has been fine never made a fuss at all :D

I think if the truth be known most parents co sleep but it seems such a dirty word some of our family hated it and thought we were insane, but we followed the guidelines, neither of us smoke, if DH went out for a drink he slept in a different bed, she was in a sleep bag on top of the covers on my side of the bed.

If you get more sleep go for it I say :smile:

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Saturday, October 17th 2009, 8:09pm

Mrs Smiff - :snigger: I just spat my tea out when I read that!!! Poor little stinky nappy head!

Chilli - your so right about it being a dirty word, DH's mum called today and said something along the lines of it's not right to have those two sleeping in with you . . . . blah, blah, blah whatever!!!!

I love cuddling up to my little chimps!


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Sunday, October 18th 2009, 9:09pm

Indiechick, if you MIL has such a problem with it, tell her she is quite welcome to come over every night and look after the two lil dudes all night while you get some sleep! I'm sure she'll soon wind her neck in! :snigger:
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Luke Benjamin August 1993
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Lochlan Cassius James April 2009 (4th attempt at ICSI)



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36

Sunday, October 18th 2009, 9:34pm

I am very PRO co-sleeping. C will be 3 in a month's time and he is still in my bedroom although tonight will be his fifth night in his junior bed... The fifth night he has slept without me in the bed. :bawl:


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Monday, October 19th 2009, 7:23am

such great thread, I must read it (when I have second for myself) as my dearest DD doesn't sleep well too... in fact - she sleeps absolutely NO problem when I/DH hold her but not on her on... seems that she hates her super great Italian cot... as she can be so soundly asleep and next second (in cot) awake and :bawl: - I have to say this (crazy lack of sleep) and breasfeeding problems made me thing that motherhood is actually hard work! :snigger: hehe...

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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Ginger74" (Oct 19th 2009, 7:24am)


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Monday, October 19th 2009, 9:41am

thanks. feeling a bit better. more like a bag of hot smelly air now not poo. still coughing well, taking antibiotics cough medicine, strepsils, you name it im taking it........... i will get better.

oz slept all of the night in his own bed, crawled in with me at 7 am (how good is that!!!!!!!!) as i got up at 10 past. couldnt sleep till after 3 this am cos of cough and dh as is bad now so i had a sex life YES as long as he promised not to lie on my chest. cant take the pressure immediate hacking/retching fit. but i have a sex life......... roll on jan '10 when i go in for round of FET.

just got oz out of bed sex life on track and i want another baby. i'll just get oz out of room as another 1 joins me in bed. how cool is that?

hope the cosleeping going well for everyone else.
After a long hard infertility journey, i am now reluctantly done




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