You are not logged in.


Unread posts

Dear visitor, welcome to FertilityZone . If this is your first visit here, please read the Help. It explains in detail how this page works. To use all features of this page, you should consider registering. Please use the registration form, to register here or read more information about the registration process. If you are already registered, please login here.

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

101

Monday, December 14th 2009, 11:06am

Maybe I am, right now I am happy and confident and have no feelings of wanting to stop, he has a full tummy asleep in his moses basket, I do forget when its good how it is when its bad.

I always try and remind myself that it will be fine in morning again but its just too hard at night when your tired and your terrified your LO is hungry and they wont take the thing that will satisfy that hunger it seems impossible

Fi'smum

MEMBER

    United Kingdom

Posts: 1,053

Reg: Feb 14th 2009

Location: Scotland

Children: 2 dd 1978 ds 1980 And 1 gorgeous granddaughter 2010 and a handsome grandson 2012

Thanks: 3 / 0

  • Send private message

102

Monday, December 14th 2009, 11:27am

And it's the same the other way round - when it's hard you forget how good it can be. Just remember at all times to trust your body to get it right :smile:

Got to go now, speak to you later.

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

103

Monday, December 14th 2009, 11:58am

Just spoke to a NCT breastfeeding councellor,

She has given me numbers for local councellors to call and she seems to think its a problem with letdown too, He isnt getting any as he isnt patient enough to wait, she has suggested I lean back while feeding him and have him on top of me as this should encourage him to take a bigger mouthful and hopefully make it easier for him to get milk flowing. I cant get nothing with pump after he gets like that and Iv sat and pumped for almost 10mins hard and fast to see if I have a second let down but can never get it although I know he will get it much easier than me.

My initial let down is so fast it doesnt even take 10secs so he is probably just used to it coming instant and so fast, when expressing I get majority of it in 2 mins then slows right down to hardly nothing. Deffo give that a try and hope it works

bubble

Megastar

    United Kingdom

Posts: 12,910

  • Send private message

104

Monday, December 14th 2009, 1:32pm

I'm glad you spoke to someone and they've given you some ideas to try. Remember as well that as you and TJ get in sync with each other your boobs are less likely to become really full. It doesn't mean that there's no milk there though.

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




Posts: 975

Reg: Jul 22nd 2008

Location: Birmingham

Children: One beautiful daughter after 2nd ICSI attempt :) She was born October 2009

  • Send private message

105

Monday, December 14th 2009, 3:09pm

Hey Pammy,

I agree with Bubble, and like me you seem to be expecting it to run smoothly all the time! BF looks way easier than it is! But you seem to be doing really really well, honestly :happy:
I'm having problems still (at 8 weeks) with Amelie 'snacking' every couple of hours, not latching on properly once let down comes, me thinking my boobs have deflated, not getting any sleep, her pulling and pushing at my nipple towards the end of a feed, not going back on after winding even though she's only been drinking for 5 mins, slipping around all over the place with let down and spilling milk out of her mouth.....
It's been like this on and off for weeks, and about 3 weeks ago I was also convinced I wasn't producing enough milk. but weight gain is the best indicator that things are going well. and TJ seems to be doing well :D
And my milk supply is still going strong. TJ will make sure yours does too.
Fennel tea is also good for supply and wind (for you and baby). it tastes gross but seems to work.
good luck hun
xxx
me 42, DH 35
ICSI 1 2009 :(
ICSI 2 2009 :BFP:
ICSI 3 2011 :(
ICSI 4 2012 ??? hopefully!

Grace

Princess of the Universe

    United Kingdom

Posts: 3,405

Reg: Jul 29th 2008

Location: Berkshire

Children: 1 beautiful little son conceived through ICSI and one equally beautiful little boy concieved naturally!

What's Up?
Oh god I've got Puppies!

Thanks: 29 / 2

  • Send private message

106

Monday, December 14th 2009, 3:46pm

Hi Pammy



I'm still a bit of a novice myself but I also have had some problems. Have you tried different positions? with Jensen I have to alternate between cradle, rugby ball and sitting upright on my knee with legs either side of my knee. Sometimes I have to alternate during one feed as he seems to like starting in one position then changing to another after a while.



Remember that no matter how long you feed him for you hav edone a terrific job and given him a great start in life.


ICSI BFP DS1 born Nov 09
Natural BFP DS2 born Sept 11

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

107

Monday, December 14th 2009, 6:27pm

Thank you everyone.

Was out in car today for apt an hour away so TJ slept most of that. I am actually starting to get worried about how much he is sleeping(ok I know stupid stupid stupid :snigger: ) but he isnt even wakening for his feed, After I came back I thought he would be ravenous but still he slept, waking up for a few mins and sleeping again. What if this is a sign he isnt getting enough? He is even settling all by himself and hasnt cried whole day ?(



Im going to ask HV tomorrow as he isnt interested in anything even when Im changing him and he hates getting changed he isnt crying or even bothered just sleeps.



He has had 2 dirty nappies today, and only 4 feeds :sadface: Im going to try and feed him a lot this evening and do as chris suggested and take him into bed tonight in just his nappy to encourage more feeding as Iv had to express twice today just cuz I was so full and we all know this is opposite of my problems recently, got 3 oz from 1 side both times

bubble

Megastar

    United Kingdom

Posts: 12,910

  • Send private message

108

Monday, December 14th 2009, 6:37pm

Have a word with your HV hun and see what she says. He might just be getting used to life though. It's a bit of a shock for the first couple of weeks! It might be helpful to keep a diary of when he is sleeping and when he is feeding - it's very easy for it all to blur into one and think that they're always sleeping/always feeding/never sleeping/never feeding when it's not actually the case. I know that there are few times when you'd want to wake a sleeping baby (!) but sometimes its necessary in the daytime. If they don't get enough feeds in the day then they'll make up for it at night. I'd try and feed at least 3hourly in the daytime at his age I think.

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

109

Monday, December 14th 2009, 6:43pm

iv got him on boob now and he eating but still sleeping :snigger: Today has been all different anyways with being away most of the day, I did give him a feed at hospital but he didnt seem very interested and he took a bg feed when we got home, I may just have him attached to my boob rest of night to make up for it, this is so unlike him

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

110

Monday, December 14th 2009, 11:43pm

Latest developments :snigger:

Took an hour of trying to get a very very sleepy TJ to the boob, Not interested or would go on and do a few sucks and fall asleep again, Gave him the EBM after failing after an hour as had been 4 hours since last feed, After that he woke right up and took a small feed from me, Tobey was back again :snigger:

He has had 3 dark green dirty nappies in last 2 hours and TMI but they looked like they had snot in them, stringy, mucus bits, Im guessing this is not normal and his last 2 (yes 5 poops in 2 hours) have sounded like a big poop but a very bright yellow(almost just like a dark pee) tiny stain on the nappy?

Also after getting 3 oz from 1 boob twice today tried at 10 and never even got an oz from both that was with almost 4 hours since last feed/express? Only other thing I can think of at the moment is TJ's first week and a half of life he normally slept a lot in evening normally 5-1 waking every 3 hours for feed and change and back down, maybe my body got used to not needing a lot of milk at that times and so I dont make a lot?

Fi'smum

MEMBER

    United Kingdom

Posts: 1,053

Reg: Feb 14th 2009

Location: Scotland

Children: 2 dd 1978 ds 1980 And 1 gorgeous granddaughter 2010 and a handsome grandson 2012

Thanks: 3 / 0

  • Send private message

111

Tuesday, December 15th 2009, 1:02am

I wouldn't worry about mucus in TJ's stool, that's quite common in normal healthy breastfed babies.Maybe if he's sleepy you should just let him waken and ask for food himself rather than try to waken him.

bubble

Megastar

    United Kingdom

Posts: 12,910

  • Send private message

112

Tuesday, December 15th 2009, 1:32pm

Have a look at this thread which has some good advice in it about green poos - it's often caused by too much foremilk.

Help please bells

Also I can't imagine that he will be trying to starve himself (!). When you say 'small feed' that might be enough for him. Remember that he'll get the majority of what he needs in the first 5 or so minutes.

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




compley

Megastar

Posts: 6,056

Reg: Apr 30th 2006

Children: DS and DD

  • Send private message

113

Tuesday, December 15th 2009, 5:45pm

Just to add H and L have always been quite fast to feed, sometimes 5-10minutes. Each baby is different, but some may be quite efficient in their feeding, and will feed quite quickly. Other babies may prefer to take their time, having more lesiurely meal!!...I also remember being told that sometimes a baby wants a snack, sometimes a 3 course meal, just like we can sometimes have varying appetite levels.

Also, sometimes our babies will do something different to their 'norm', taking longer/shorter time to feed...they like to keep us on our toes!

I remember H and L being very sleepy in the first few weeks, and then they suddenly 'woke up to the world!', and became much more lively!! There were also days when they slept more than others, and often if we were out and about in the car etc, as you were yesterday, they seemed to sleep even more. I think all the motion soothes them to sleep!
If you added the time TJ was awake, over a 24 hour period, you'd probably be surprised, and remember very young babies can spend a big chunk of time asleep!

As has been said before expressing isn't an accurate representation of your milk supply. It can also be quite tiring and add to possible worries and concerns, so whilst there may be times you need to express, go careful, at this early stage, not to wear yourself out expressing/seeing how much milk you can pump.

And if you can, rest when TJ is alseep, as this is really important too!

xxx

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

114

Tuesday, December 15th 2009, 11:14pm

Thanks Bubble, That link was helpful, I do think I have a lot of foremilk and its when it comes to the really thick creamy coloured hindmilk that TJ doesnt keep going.

Spoke to HV about it today, she never weighed him today, done every 2 weeks now apparantly, she agreed about foremilk as he squirms a lot in his sleep and seems to be trying to push as if he constipated(he far from it though) seems quite uncomfortable, she thought he just doesnt want to work for his dinner when it gets difficult and he has to suck more, Towards the end of a feed he can take up to 20 sucks before a swallow(yes I have been sad and counting :O )



Thanks Laura I do think he is a fast eater swallowing every other suck at start of a feed, Your right about expressing, It was stressing me out, Not needed to today though, Feeds been much better and taking full feeds then sleeping a good few hours so had no problems today as boobs have had time to fill the way he likes them :snigger: But todays not over yet and Im all deflated from a very large double boob bedtime feed :P

Fi'smum

MEMBER

    United Kingdom

Posts: 1,053

Reg: Feb 14th 2009

Location: Scotland

Children: 2 dd 1978 ds 1980 And 1 gorgeous granddaughter 2010 and a handsome grandson 2012

Thanks: 3 / 0

  • Send private message

115

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 2:08am

:smile: Glad to hear you've had a good day today. I ve been reading your diary from the start. Your PMA when you started tx was amazing. You were so sure it would work. So you need to find some of that now. I'll send you some to start you off ......PMA PMA PMA PMA

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

116

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 1:24pm

Thanks Chris

I know I dont know where all that PMA came from I was so certain it would work and I knew right from 2ww it was a boy too,

This morning not going good, Im all soft already and he refusing them Im going to need at least 3 hours to give him a decent feed again and he wants more now, story of my life, Iv also not done washing in so long I only have 2 clean babygrows left, sheets need changing badly cuz Iv put them off so long, seriously stinky is not the word :snigger: and I havent had a shower in 5 days and smell even worse than the sheets :shush:

bubble

Megastar

    United Kingdom

Posts: 12,910

  • Send private message

117

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 1:41pm

Soft boobs can still provide milk.

When did he last feed? If it was recently try putting him down and give yourself a wash with babywipes!

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

118

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 1:51pm

Think Im going to have to make a very brave decision today and throw away all thinks bottle feeding, I gave him some more formula and its just getting too easy, worst thing is this time I didnt even feel bad I was just so pleased to get him quiet, how selfish.

I just know once thats safety net is gone its going to be hard not having it there. But I need to do this if I want to succeed

bubble

Megastar

    United Kingdom

Posts: 12,910

  • Send private message

119

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 1:56pm

Pammy if you want to move onto bottle feeding that that is completely your call and no-one will judge or criticise you for it. Mix feeding can work but if he is already a little lazy at working at the breast then it will make things so much harder if you do give bottles. Throwing away the bottles might help if you feel it's too easy to use one but don't do anything hasty.

Remember he fed well and slept well yesterday. As Laura said they ike to keep us on our toes so don't be suprised if today is different. Tomorrow will be different again!

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

120

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 1:57pm

whoops3 Bubble

The above post shows what I did, I know there is milk there but he either doesnt or cant work out how to get it out, Its hard for me to imagine him keeping on going when they are soft cuz I dont think he has ever done it, Think reasons I never had this problem in 1st week is cuz there was always plenty and they never got soft. I need to fiure out how to get him to stay on lng enough to realise he will get more with a bit of effort but all my efforts so far havent worked even tried what the BF councellor said and that didnt help either.He only likes them when they are so full they are rock hard and then he will feed and feed and be satisfied.



He is a cheeky little monkey who knows how to wind up his mummy :snigger:

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

121

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 9:44pm

Ok so Iv put it on you tube :snigger:

This shows a little of what he does, I was filming it myself so cant get a good view of latch, also you will see what he often does with his hands on the boob, he pushes and squeezes them

YouTube - Baby not feeding.MP4

compley

Megastar

Posts: 6,056

Reg: Apr 30th 2006

Children: DS and DD

  • Send private message

122

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 9:46pm

Pammy, you should do what feels right for you and TJ, and it is hard with a new baby/tiredness/wandering what is the best thing to do.
When I was feeding H there were quite a few times when I considered formula (think I even posted a thread about it!). But each time, when I got to the end of the day, I knew I wasn't sure, that I wasn't ready, and that what I really wanted, even though it was so hard, was to carry on bfing. And with help and support I did. There were really good times when everything went so well, and probably some more stumbling blocks. At each one, I faced different thoughts/scenarios, and made the decision that felt right. I fed H for almost 7 months, and when I did swap to formula, although I had some mixed emotions, it was the right time for us.

We will all be here to support you, and help however we can, but ultimately it must be your decision, about how you choose to feed TJ. You are putting so much into feeding TJ, and working so hard at it. It sounds like you are happy with deciding to get rid of the bottles/formula at the moment, and if you find it helps you right now (even though it seems so hard at the moment! and getting rid of your 'safety net, as you say seems a bit scary), then I think it sounds a good idea.

Is dh around in the evenings? Would he be able to look after TJ so you can grab a few minutes to yourself? I used to take H into the bathroom, in his bouncy chair (even his car seat!!) so I could get a shower! Or, maybe you and TJ could have a bath together, also a nice way for a bit of skin to skin contact?

I know you went to a breast feeding support group last week. Do you feel it would help to go again, and chat through your concerns re TJ's feeding, and see if they have any suggestions which may help?

xxx

compley

Megastar

Posts: 6,056

Reg: Apr 30th 2006

Children: DS and DD

  • Send private message

123

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 9:47pm

ps: cross posted! Despite the new cross posting notice!

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

124

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 9:54pm

Thanks Laura

Im glad others have considered giving in but glad they kept going, I so want that to be me too 7 months later looking back and knowing I made right decision.

I dont want to switch to bottles Id love to be able to feed him for a year or beyond and thats why I feel I need to get rid of the formula in house and anything else that makes it too easy to give in when Im weak, It is going to be very very scary(havent been able to do it yet) but fear if I dont I may start topping up more and more and may be forced to stop due to diminishing supply.
DH has been helping a little in evening go my shower in the end :snigger: . I was thinking about going to group again tomorrow, Good to see others who have been successful and hopefully others at same stage to see im not alone


Thanks so much for all your support Laura your a star

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "pamelag088" (Dec 16th 2009, 9:54pm)


bubble

Megastar

    United Kingdom

Posts: 12,910

  • Send private message

125

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 10:05pm

Hi Pammy

I think it'd be a good idea to go to the group again tomorrow. I had a look at the video and I know you've said before that he has a good latch but it doesn't look to me as though he's getting enough boob in his mouth - just the nipple - which is likely to be why he's getting frustrated. It does help to 'shove' as much boob in there as possible. Would you normally help him to latch back on or let him try for himself?

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




compley

Megastar

Posts: 6,056

Reg: Apr 30th 2006

Children: DS and DD

  • Send private message

126

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 10:05pm

Glad you managed to get a shower, and a few minutes to youself!

I'd say it sounds like a really good idea to go along to the group, have a chat with other Mums, and with others who are/have breastfed, and can support you. You may even find they are having similar experiences to you, and be able to offer each other some support, and maybe things you've each tried/things that have helped etc! It also gives you a chance to pop out for an hour, and as we said before, little babies sometimes nod off in the pram/car seat, so you may even get chance to drink a hot cuppa!!!

xxx

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

127

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 10:09pm

That latch wasnt too good cuz I only had one hand :snigger:

When heis like that when he roots his mouth is open so wide he can take whole lot in his mouth,

compley

Megastar

Posts: 6,056

Reg: Apr 30th 2006

Children: DS and DD

  • Send private message

128

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 10:16pm

Pammy, have had a look at the video too, and am thinking the same as Bubble. I remember the mw telling me to do just what Bubble said and 'shove' as much boob in! It's hard to explain in writing, but something the mw/hv who runs the group tomorrow, and who could observe a feed/see you and TJ 'in the flesh', should be able to help you with.

xxx

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

129

Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 10:28pm

i did get woman last week to watch, and 2 mws had a check too this combined with not being sore made me think it was fine, if it isnt im going to be so angry that 3 different couldnt pick up on it.

i have tried putting all the areola in his mouth when he is in his strop but that never made a difference

Fi'smum

MEMBER

    United Kingdom

Posts: 1,053

Reg: Feb 14th 2009

Location: Scotland

Children: 2 dd 1978 ds 1980 And 1 gorgeous granddaughter 2010 and a handsome grandson 2012

Thanks: 3 / 0

  • Send private message

130

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 1:16am

Sorry I haven't been on here today. Was making salt dough in the morning (3 different colours biggrin2 ) For Fiona's class, then in school helping them to make tree decorations with it (lovely mess) Had to bring some of them home to bake then take them round to Fi's so she can take them into school tomorrow. I've just been making meringue snowmen ( the meringue parts) and now have to wait an hour to make sure they're ready before I go to bed.

I had a look at your video. Not very easy to see - were you doing the video yourself at the same time as feeding?? Now that's what I call multitasking :snigger:

He doesn't need all the areola in his mouth, but it's important that the areola under the nipple is all in . It's OK to be able to see the top part of the areola above the nipple. His chin has to be close in to the breast and his head tilted back if he's going to feed efficiently. When he's crying and pulling away from the breast have you tried changing to a different hold, like rugby? Have you had him weighed again? Might be an idea to see if he's still gaining. Good idea to go to the support group again.

No shower for 5 days - you midden !! :snigger: I used to take my babies into the bathroom with me. Good idea to take TJ into the bath with you - nice warm water would relax him - he might even feed there!!

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

131

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 1:26am

I dont trust myself taking him in bath myself, normally het in then DH hands him to me as I need both hands to get myself in :snigger:

Im still up cuz he is still up he is shattered but refusing to sleep just gawking around him then having a hissy fit now and again :rolleyes: DH trying to settle him to allow me to type :snigger:

So all the areola at bottom should be in? Well mine isnt so I will make more effort with that see if that makes a difference, Sounds like you had fun today with the kids and the salt dough, bet its so lovely working with LO's and I can imagine quite funny at times too.

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

132

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 1:29am

Just noticed the rest of your questions :snigger:

Iv tried the rugby, TBH its not comfy for me at all he does it when I tried it too HV not weighing him til monday so will have to hold on til then to see, I will try to make the group tomorrow but if he allows me a long lie Im seizing the opportunity :snigger:

Fi'smum

MEMBER

    United Kingdom

Posts: 1,053

Reg: Feb 14th 2009

Location: Scotland

Children: 2 dd 1978 ds 1980 And 1 gorgeous granddaughter 2010 and a handsome grandson 2012

Thanks: 3 / 0

  • Send private message

133

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 2:13am

It was fun today I know all the kids because I've been going in to help one morning a week since Fi started at the school. The first year she had P2/3 - mostly a nice class but it did have a few nightmare kids. She had P4 last year and has the same class again, so P5 .They're a good class. They're all as high as kites now that it's getting near Christmas. Last year I made star biscuits and wrote their names onthem,so this year I'm attempting meringue snowmen - I've just taken the first batch out of the oven - the bodies and heads are not going to look anything like snowmen when they're put together - not the right shape, and not even white!!! Think I'll just put them all in a tin and keep. Maybe I'll do Santa biscuits instead.

Hope you get the positioning sorted. So today's not been a good one but don't forget yesterday was good, and tomorow may be as well. :smile:

bubble

Megastar

    United Kingdom

Posts: 12,910

  • Send private message

134

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 10:01am

Pammy have you tried feeding him lying down on your side? Sometimes that can be easier for both of you.

(And completely digressing, I LOVE the idea of meringue snowman Chris. I know this is cheating (!) but I find the sachets of egg white powder give a much whiter meringue than if you seperate the egg whites yourself).

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




Bells

ADMINISTRATOR

    United Kingdom

Posts: 14,475

Thanks: 40 / 66

  • Send private message

135

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 10:32am

Oh Pammy love! I watched your video twice and it took me straight back to my 'nightmare super sucky' youngest daughter (who was born enraged and didn't let up for months!).

I think you have a combination of factors here. First I would agree that, from that video, TJ looks like he could be a few inches lower down at the start, so that his nose is level with your nipple and so that he has to tip his head back in order for his mouth to reach it. This then ensures that the bottom part of your nipple is in his mouth as Chris suggests. I also wonder whether this, combined with you using your fingers to get a little more breast into his mouth, might improve positioning. I'd also consider using some pillows or cushions to support TJ and help him keep his head comfortable throughout the feed. Also do make sure that his whole body is straight and that his nose, the centre of his chest and his tummy button are all facing the same direction (imagine a line through them) and that his tummy is against yours. A latching problem would also explain why, when your breasts are full and he doesn't have to work hard for the milk, he feeds well. Once he's reliant on suckling he gets annoyed? Remember, 'nose to nipple, tummy to Mummy'.

I also think that TJ's little performance there was frustration and perhaps tiredness at that point. Maybe he just wants to suck and go to sleep but doesn't actually want milk?

I too think it would do you the world of good to get out to your group, get some structure and perhaps start to make plans to get out and about. I feel that you've established your milk supply but now you're at the stage where he will just feed for the heck of it, because there's nothing else to do and you being utterly fantastic, commited and UNselfish, you're giving him whatever he fancies whenever he fancies it. Now that TJ is almost a month old, you've done superbly well at demand feeding which is 'just' what a newborn needs.... but now it's time to take control of the reins again and think about what Pammy needs for her own personal mental health... and I don't think that's being cooped up in a room with a grumbling baby while doubting herself!

And if you need a shower, take TJ into the bathroom in his car seat/bouncy chair and have a shower. If he cries for a few minutes you'll feel much better equipped to deal with it once you've managed to wash your hair and freshen up.

I actually think you're doing great and it all sounds pretty normal to me. Believe in yourself Pammy!





pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

136

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 12:40pm

Maybe he just wants to suck and go to sleep but doesn't actually want milk?



You know Bells this has been something I have thought of too, It seems to be a lot worse when he is tired and he can be very stubborn with his sleep sometimes, I also think that sometimes he wants to feed to sleep and also cant be bothered sucking but does want milk.

Had a terrible night last night, His last big feed was at 8 but he wouldnt go down then after that his crying carried on til 4am boobs dont fill cuz I keep trying to put him on where he may suck for a minute then start getting frustrated so he is snacking for hours but not filling himself and when he wants a big feed there isnt one.

I am making much more effort with the latch, Havent noticed a difference yet but will persevere, All night I dreamt of babies, boobs and milk and boobs wasnt even full like they normally are in the morning so he continued to be fussy in morning too.

I think if he fed every 3 hours he would get a decent feed and i would have confidence that in next 3 hours he would also get a decent feed but is he too young to stick him on a routine like that? Or would it affect my milk supply coming off demand feeding?

Bells I think your right I need to take charge back cuz way it is right now there is absolutely no structure every day is completely different, He can feed 6 times one day 12 next, sleep most of day one day up the next and it is taking its toll just not knowing if its safe to go out incase he starts fussing and I cant settle him.

You know I was very near to saying no more this morning but I really would miss him being at my boobs and I know he would miss it too even just for the comfort, I keep telling myself I must get to 6 weeks, Its ony 2 weeks away but 2 weeks feels like an eternity sometimes :snigger:

HV was hepful when I spoke to her, very supportive and said majority of mums she sees wouldnt have still been going after struggling so long and if I can be determined this long, surely I can manage a little longer

Posts: 975

Reg: Jul 22nd 2008

Location: Birmingham

Children: One beautiful daughter after 2nd ICSI attempt :) She was born October 2009

  • Send private message

137

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 5:33pm

Wow Pammy you're a tough cookie :smile: You're doing such a good job and being so patient.
it's interesting what your HV said about foremilk as I wonder if that's why A squirms alot at night :?: . She too only drinks at the beginning when it's nice and easy and then slows right off. she's done by 10 mins easily (and the last 5 mins of that are half hearted sucks ;(

I want to see your video. How can I find it? :)

keep up the good work girl :thumbup:

xxx
me 42, DH 35
ICSI 1 2009 :(
ICSI 2 2009 :BFP:
ICSI 3 2011 :(
ICSI 4 2012 ??? hopefully!

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

138

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 6:09pm

pooch there is a link to it on the first post of this page, could be why she squirms, thats what he does too, squirms and squeaks and pushes and grunts in his sleep. Its so hard when they wont stay on, Iv been squeezing my nipple after he comes off to see what type of milk he has been getting, just a thought pooch.

Iv still been trying latch, must admit Im struggling to get his bottom lip to catch much more and it isnt flanged out like the top one is either. Im waiting for him to tilt his head back but he just gets annoyed and then eats his hands so I have to move them out way before getting him back in right place etc etc. He is asleep on me now..... aww its lovely to see :D

Posts: 975

Reg: Jul 22nd 2008

Location: Birmingham

Children: One beautiful daughter after 2nd ICSI attempt :) She was born October 2009

  • Send private message

139

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 6:44pm

aw Pammy, that video breaks my heart - A is the same sometimes and hits out and gets frustrated. thanks for posting it :smile:
yep, A does exactly the same at night too, with the squrming etc. thank god for the great advice and support on here to keep us going eh?

good luck with tonight chick, i can't wait for at least a 3 hour stretch of sleep.

xxx
me 42, DH 35
ICSI 1 2009 :(
ICSI 2 2009 :BFP:
ICSI 3 2011 :(
ICSI 4 2012 ??? hopefully!

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

140

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 6:57pm

aww Pooch hun
Maybe if she is getting only foremilk it isnt keeping her satisfied long as TJ wasnt staying satisfied even an hour before, Although TJ can eat really quickly sometimes too so length of time isnt always an indicator either.

Your right about support on here I certainly wouldnt still be feeding him if it wasnt for it.

Maybe you could express some milk off at start so A gets to hindmilk quicker see of that makes a difference? I know all too well how hard it is when things arent going the way you hoped but your doing a fab job too hun, I only pray Im still going as long as you

Posts: 135

Reg: Mar 27th 2009

Location: Devon

Children: 2!

  • Send private message

141

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 9:24pm

Hi Pammy
Just seeing how you're doing and want to say well done for sticking in there. Saw your you tube video and my heart went out to you. Could just feel how stressful that must be. E didn't do the screaming, just the continuous sucking and a poor latch. We got there in the end. Also now getting our evenings back - earliest to bed tonight ever at 8.30! woohoo!
I do remember I was so intent of getting E down at an early evening time for bed at first that I spent all evening up stairs on the bed feeding him for hours. I don't know if you're doing this but it only made me feel miserable and made no difference. Someone gave me the advice of just bringing him to feed into the lounge on an evening, and chilling down there with DP and then taking him up late (usually at beginning 11.30ish) and feeding in bed lying down til either of us went to sleep.
Take care
Jen
3 M/C
dx tubal and endo
IVf Nov '08 - BFP!
DS1 08/09!
Failed FET Nov '10
IVF March '11 cancelled
IVF/ISCI July '11 - BFP
DS2 April 2012
FETOct 201

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

142

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 10:14pm

Thanks Jen

Well done on 8 oclock :D Bet it was stressful upstairs for hours, been there myself, desperate to get him down, I think they must sense it and stay up longer :snigger:

I am probably going to suffer for saying this but Im so chuffed I have to :snigger: TJ just had the best feed we have ever had, Big open mouth lots of boob in and he fed for half hour sucking for majority of it and deffo got lots of hindmilk, he pulled off himself seemed to smile at me even with the eyes then nodded off very content and leaving me feeling brilliant :D

Long may it continue

Bells

ADMINISTRATOR

    United Kingdom

Posts: 14,475

Thanks: 40 / 66

  • Send private message

143

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 10:19pm



I think if he fed every 3 hours he would get a decent feed and i would have confidence that in next 3 hours he would also get a decent feed but is he too young to stick him on a routine like that? Or would it affect my milk supply coming off demand feeding?



I don't think that it would affect your supply. I think that the only thing that will affect your supply now is you losing confidence and resorting to bottles. I actually think that some structure would improve things for both of you. I tended to follow a 'baby led' kind of routine but I think that whatever suits you works best for you.





Bells

ADMINISTRATOR

    United Kingdom

Posts: 14,475

Thanks: 40 / 66

  • Send private message

144

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 10:20pm

I am probably going to suffer for saying this but Im so chuffed I have to TJ just had the best feed we have ever had, Big open mouth lots of boob in and he fed for half hour sucking for majority of it and deffo got lots of hindmilk, he pulled off himself seemed to smile at me even with the eyes then nodded off very content and leaving me feeling brilliant


Woooooo! That's brilliant Pammy!!!

You CAN and ARE doing this!!!





pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

145

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 10:35pm

biggrin2

Thanks Bells, The days that its good are the days where he goes longer between feeds, its when he snacks everything goes wrong but Im not totally sure how to get him out of that but we will see how it goes.

DH is on holiday from wednesday for a fortnight so once xmas is out the way we can work together in figuring out best routine for all of us and trying to get it up and running, Im going out with work for 2 hours on Sunday will be first time Iv been away from him and leaving granny in charge, Im probably going ti be a big mess calling every 10 mins and wanting home early and wont be any fun but looking forward to it,

Noodles

Newbie

Posts: 44

Reg: Apr 21st 2008

Location: Nottingham, England

Children: DS 22, dd died aged 9 days, DS 12, DS 9, x4 miscs

  • Send private message

146

Thursday, December 17th 2009, 11:36pm

Hi Pammy,

sorry have not had time to read the whole thread, but well done on persevering with feeding. Just another quick thought to add to the ton of advice - it does sound as if he is 'getting enough' as his weight gain would not be so fab if he wasn't, but it sounds as it he is often uncomfortable and fussy? (I assume he has been checked for a tongue tie as this was mentioned earlier.)

My little contribution is: have you considered your own diet in terms of possible sensitivity? I am a midwife, and have had a previous client who had a very fussy miserable baby - windy, grumpy, frothy poos etc (he also had excema). She cut out nearly all dairy, switching to soya instead and he was like a different baby. She was also ok to eat goats milk products, just not cows milk. His excema also cleared up. If you do try this, of course you need to be very careful to include plenty of protein and calcium from other sources.

Well done again for sticking with it. It is definitely worth it in terms of benefits to his immune system, and I also hope you enjoy many more delightful feeds like the one you just described!
Noodles

Fi'smum

MEMBER

    United Kingdom

Posts: 1,053

Reg: Feb 14th 2009

Location: Scotland

Children: 2 dd 1978 ds 1980 And 1 gorgeous granddaughter 2010 and a handsome grandson 2012

Thanks: 3 / 0

  • Send private message

147

Friday, December 18th 2009, 1:43am

happydance Fab news Pammy!!!! Isn't it so satisfying when they come off the breast after a good feed and give you a smile smile2 Sounds like you've got him latched on better this time - makes such a difference doesn't it.

I'm just catching up here now - had a busy day. At GP with dh this morning, did a washing, and went into town in the afternoon to try to finish off Christmas shopping. Got home at 7pm, knackered. After we'd eaten, I went and made biscuits for Fi's class. I did boy and girl shapes, and I'll write their names on them tomorrow morning, and take them in for their party in the afternoon. We'll be eating meringues here for quite some time following the snowman disaster :chortle:

Hope you have a better night tonight and a good day tomorrow. xfingers

Posts: 2,179

Reg: Jan 17th 2009

Location: ENGLAND

Children: 1 STEPSON 15 YEARS OLD & ONE DD 3 as a result of 1st ICSI :)

Thanks: 11 / 0

  • Send private message

148

Friday, December 18th 2009, 12:21pm

Pammy just wanted to stop by & say well done in sticking with the BF You are doing great! Once me & B got our initial problems sorted we have never looked back :smile: Its definetly worth persevering. Also fed B quite a few times out in public (got a fab nursing shawl so all very discreet) up in Scotland & it has done wonders for my confidence. Believe me once your wee man gets his latch mastered he will resemble a homing missile when he is latching on :snigger: I co slept with B up in Scotland & awoke on several occassions with her trying to latch on in her sleep WEE MONKEY! :snigger:

Take care x
SCOTTIE
1st ICSI 09 - DD born :girl_blum:
Jan 12 FET - :BFN::-(
Our journey has ended...forever grateful for our miracle [zx160]

pamelag088

Superstar

  • "pamelag088" started this thread

Posts: 5,085

Reg: Oct 20th 2008

Location: fraserburgh

Children: tj born 20/11/09

  • Send private message

149

Friday, December 18th 2009, 3:38pm

Thanks everyone

Chris how did you get on today with the biscuits? Bet the kids were high as kites :snigger: Is fi finishing up now or returning after xmas? Bet she getting tired now.

Had a good day so far but probably because he has been asleep most of the day waking for feed then going right back to sleep again, Im not waking him just letting him wake himself when he hungry, was 3am last night again, He just refuses to sleep and think Im finding it hard to tell when he is hungry and just tired as he acts the same except his eyes roll, he wouldnt take boob again but ended up falling asleep without it on DH's chest

Fi'smum

MEMBER

    United Kingdom

Posts: 1,053

Reg: Feb 14th 2009

Location: Scotland

Children: 2 dd 1978 ds 1980 And 1 gorgeous granddaughter 2010 and a handsome grandson 2012

Thanks: 3 / 0

  • Send private message

150

Saturday, December 19th 2009, 12:59pm

I think things are beginning to fall into place for you a bit more now.it's hard work this motherhood lark isn't it!! Bet you didn't imagine anything like this when you were ttc.

The kids were dlighted with their biscuits (and we now have a load of broken biscuits to add to the meringues :licklips: : )

They are high as kites - they had a disco in the afternoon, which was great fun, then we went off to do the Tesco shopping, so another knackering day!!

Are you all organised for Christmas? I'm off shortly to finish off the last odds and ends of shopping, then coming back to wrap pressies. Colin has a gig in a pub in town tonight so would like to go and see him, if I can persuade hubby out of his armchair. :D

Love




FERTILITYZONE



MEDHURST – PROUD HOSTS OF FERTILITYZONE