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Bells

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Saturday, December 19th 2009, 1:06pm

It's true Chris. I think so many people think that having a new baby will be 'tiring' but nobody expects just how exhausting and consuming it all is. I think it's one of the reasons that new Mums feel that they're' doing it wrong' when actually, it's this hard work, these days, weeks and months of total exhaustion, worry, lack of sleep, fretting, stress, trial and error that 'makes' a parent. In the words of Joe McXfactor 'it's the climb'. :D





pamelag088

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Saturday, December 19th 2009, 1:07pm

Quoted

Bet you didn't imagine anything like this when you were ttc.



Nope, i think you are so focused on the pregnancy, 1st scan, 12 weeks, 20 weeks, kicks, bump, labour brain could only work a section at a time and although everyone tells you what its like you don't believe them or understand til you've done it yourself but saying that every tiny little bad bit has been completely and utterly worth it and I cannot imagine my life without him ever beng in it.

Its still not registered in my head I have a son, I reckon still yet if someone were to ask me if I have any kids I'd still say no cuz thats all Iv ever said my whole life :snigger:

I think things are settling slightly, I feel more relxed and able to deal with things as I get to know him and know what he wants, feeding has been better but he seems to have settled because he is getting bigger feeds, Yesterday he had 8 feeds and all were big proper ones and boobs were coping much better.

Im still struggling with the latch esp on the left side I try so hard to shove lots of boob in but no matter if he tips his head or I squash everything like a pancake and even tried using my fingers to poke it in :snigger: He still ends up sliding back onto nipple but I think it is making a big difference, Havent even considered a bottle in 2 days :D

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Saturday, December 19th 2009, 1:08pm

Cross posted Pammy. You sound brilliant today! Well done!!!!





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Saturday, December 19th 2009, 1:38pm

Glad things are continuing to improve Pammy :D You are so right being a mummy is very hard work! I feel like i khave been hit by a bus today :sadface: absolutely KNACKERED! :snigger:
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Saturday, December 19th 2009, 6:07pm

Great stuff Pammy!! For the left side, I think I remember you saying you couldn't manage rugby hold. Could you do it if TJ was lying on a pillow under your arm, so he's underneath the breast, then you just put your hand behind his shoulders to guide him on, and you have the other hand for shaping the boob. That way he's latching on from a different angle and may find it easier. It's also easier to see what he's doing. If you have a little blanket or something near your right hand, once he's on you can put it under the back of his neck for support then you can take your hand away. Might be worth a try. :)

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Saturday, December 19th 2009, 7:12pm

thanks chris I shall try that next feed :D Im managing the right side not too bad, cant believe Iv been doing it wrong all this time X(
He did have a little screaming session earlier but he was sleepy so think more to to with that than the food.
Here is another question, How will I know when the feeding is established? what exactly does it mean :snigger:

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Sunday, December 20th 2009, 8:35am

Hi Pammy,



I had a similar problem to you in that Jensen wouldn't tilt his head to latch on, I'd bonk him on the nose or upper lip with my nipple and he'd tilt his head and stick his hand in, as soon as I tried to to get my boob in he would pull his head back into his chest. What I found worked for me is if I angled him slightly below my boob and then lifted him slightly by the shoulders which (as he can't lift his head properly yet) caused his head to fall slightly back and he couldn't pull his head back into his chest then I could stick my boob into his mouth and then lower him back into the correct position once he was latched and eating. I know that technically Bell's advice is correct to have him all lined up with you but I found this worked to re-position the nipple in his mouth as I also had an incorrect latch (mine was central and therefore inefficient) and I think it's harder to correct an incorrect latch as baby has got used to doing it that way.



Remember that you are doing a fantastic job, you've already given him the benefit for 4 weeks which is fantastic and whatever you decide to do from this point forward you should be congratulating yourself! I also agree that you should be taking time for yourself, I give Jensen to DH in the evening and go an soak in the bath for half an hour, if he screams (Jensen not DH) then he screams and DH can cope with it.



Re sleeping, if he likes to go to sleep with your boob in his mouth will he quiet down if you put a finger in? I just ask because Jensen just does NOT settle in his basket no matter what else you try unless he is sucking my finger (carefully manicured of course) I position him next to the bed or sofa (depending on where I'm sleeping) so that I can relax with my finger being sucked. He will then suck it until he falls asleep (which can take up to an hour depending on what time it is) and I can then carefully remove my finger and let him sleep. Jensen doesn't like dummies and won't take one but will happily suck DH's or my finger instead. Although it's tiring it has made bedtimes less stressful and last night he went to sleep twice without having my finger installed as he seemed happy just to know I was lying right next to him as I had the basket so close he could see my face.

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Sunday, December 20th 2009, 10:58am

What I found worked for me is if I angled him slightly below my boob and then lifted him slightly by the shoulders which (as he can't lift his head properly yet) caused his head to fall slightly back and he couldn't pull his head back into his chest then I could stick my boob into his mouth and then lower him back into the correct position once he was latched and eating. ilar problem to you in that Jensen wouldn't tilt his head to latch on, I'd bonk him on the nose or upper lip with my nipple and he'd tilt his head and stick his hand in, as soon as I tried to to get my boob in he would pull his head back into his chest. What I found worked for me is if I angled him slightly below my boob and then lifted him slightly by the shoulders which (as he can't lift his head properly yet) caused his head to fall slightly back and he couldn't pull his head back into his chest then I could stick my boob into his mouth and then lower him back into the correct position once he was latched and eating.
That kinda describes what I said about positioning

The comfort sucking thing too - all babies like to suck,esp. to fall asleep sucking. Whether it's boob, thumb, dummy or your finger is entirely up to you. My 2 were natural thumb suckers ( Fiona was sucking her thumb in the cot while I was being stitched - in those days you just got a quick hold of the baby then they were put down in a cot at the other side of the room!! How unbelievably stupid were we!!!) :loony:

How do you know when feeding is established? Good question. I suppose it's when there are no longer problems with latching on and you supply/demand is up and running. You should feel relaxed and confident that it's all clicked into place (most of the time - blips with growth spurts sometimes!)

Keep up the good work - you're doing an ace job!! clap

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Fi'smum" (Dec 20th 2009, 10:58am)


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Sunday, December 20th 2009, 1:55pm

Thanks Grace
No TJ doesnt like the finger he furiously sucks it then goes scatty when no milk is coming out :snigger:
I will try the positioning as you said as they hands are a problem always back in mouth by time boob goes in,

Chris Im not sure it will ever be established then :snigger: also whats supply and demand compared to before? Just that my body makes right amount?
Last night was trying to settle him from 9, let him use me as a dummy for around an hour 3am he went down then awoke at 3.40 wanting to suck more, had nothing left as he had been pretty much feeding all them hours before so went down and made up a 4oz bottle then stuck him back on boob to comfort himself to sleep, finally got some sleep myself at 4.30 then he was up again at 6. I even let him cry for almost half hour until he was choking himself and he would not go back to sleep, dont know whats changed, he was so good at night a week ago.

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Sunday, December 20th 2009, 2:06pm

wow pammy did nt realise you were having these problems. perhaps hes on a growth spurt?
michael was feeding constantly and -as you know- got so sore and started express feeding instead. he seems to be happy but i sympathise with the hands in the mouth before you can move quick enough- michael is the same regardless of bottle or boob! he will settle with a dummy for a while or if really tired. DH got two breastfeeding dummies. they are slightly different to normal ones. have you tried those ones? i will have a look what they are called and report back later.
michaels not in a routine yet (hes only 13days old) but the past few nights he seems to be sleeping with more space between feeds. he is very greedy though n hes difficult to wind n if you dont get it right its projectile everywhere which is not what you want at 3am lol he only ever fills his nappy when hes feeding too!!


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Sunday, December 20th 2009, 2:13pm

Hey Poppit

Oh yes TJ likes to wait til he is asleep and Im just away to put him down before filling his nappy which means I have to wake him by changing him then we have to start the settling all over again, there was 1 night 3 times in a row that happened could have cried.
I honestly dont think Id have enough if I were to express for all his feeds, you have done so well

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Monday, December 21st 2009, 2:18am

TJ still up :sadface:
Going to write down everthing Im feeling and thinking, may be totally wrong but here it is.

My mum had TJ tonight for 2 hours I couldnt get any bottles expressed so I gave her 2 4oz bottles, He took the first stayed up about an hour and signalled he was hungry again, Took 2 oz of second where he settled for 10mins then woke and wanted more, At this point I took him home and had expressed as i was full from missing a feed, Got 3oz which I then gave him as he still was appearing hungry, he finished that and settled in my arms, put him down and was away 5 mins when I came back wide awake again. So altogether he had 9 oz i 3 hours wasnt sick as if he had too much but he was only sleeping for a few mins at a time and he was shattered, his eyes were rolling and everything. took him upstairs and gave him the boob, sucked for 5 mins then fell asleep again for 5 mins.
Also what he does with boob, spitting it out fussing etc he was doing with bottle also so I think he does want to suck but not get the milk but the dummy isnt good enough either as he refuses it.

I think Im dealing with a sleep issue rather than a feeding one although tonight he hasnt screamed as he normally does but he fights his sleep and can do for HOURS, he will sleep ok on me but constantly peaks to see if Im still there, doesnt need dummy but last night was pure hell he screamed and screamed, refused boob, refused dummy, wouldnt sleep at all even though I knew he ws shattered and I even let him cry for hlf hour and still nothing. Onc he went down he slept only 40 mins, after this I took him in bed with me where he sucked himseld to sleep on me but only slept an hour this time.
Its almost as though he must be sucking all the time as if i catch him quick enough once he wakes and give him dummy he can settle himself back to sleep til it falls out again. Im not prepared to get up 20 times a night to give it him back and obviously cant be using me as a dummy all night either so what do I do?
Is it normal for him to eat as much as he did in a 3 hour period? I know I shouldnt give him bottles for my supply but Im glad I did as I realised its not me or my supply its his sleep, I was so scared I was starving him I didnt realise until tonight when he acted the same after so much food that he couldnt possibly be hungry and that sucking is stopping him sleeping as he cant settle himself without it.
Any ideas on how to get him back on track with sleeping at night? how to teach him to manage to go back to sleep after waking with dummy out his mouth? its so weird as if he doesnt get dummy he will awake fully and work himself into such a state then want more food yet if he gets dummy he closes his eyes and falls back to sleep only if I catch it really quick though.
Ok rant over sorry for boring everyone just wanted to get all that down

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Tuesday, December 22nd 2009, 3:36pm

Hi Pammy, Oh dear!! 9ozs in 3 hours!! I think after that he probably had a sore tummy and that's why he couldn't settle. I think you're right - TJ's nto always hungry when he sucks everything in sight - he just wants to suck. Unfortunately with a bottle he can't suck without eating, like he can with a boob. As for getting him sleeping at night, that's something he'l do in his own time. at the moment night feeds are still very important for your supply.l

Love,

pamelag088

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Tuesday, December 22nd 2009, 9:53pm

Thanks Chris if your not on again before merry christmas, hope Santa is good to you :P
I have to admit I have went downhill with the feeding, I am still breastfeeding through the night and until about 1 in aft rest of time I am expressing and topping up. I feel I have ruined it already as thats 2 days now I have been supplementing and Im just wondering how long before my milk dries up, Im getting about 3 oz every 3 hours but its not enough for him as he is taking about 4oz every 2 hours.
I am gutted but at the same time I am feeling better as I am downstairs where my mum helps me out and I feel sorta like I have my life back instead of being stuck in my room stressing I havent cried once and havent even really got stressed out with his crying as my mum is there and can do some feeds for me.
I am so torn between the 2 as I love feeding him so so much and when this all catches up on me and my milk is gone I will be devastated.
Do you think Iv done too much damage to go back?
Its a very hard decision and know its one only I can make but not being able to feed downstairs is whats stopping me doing it all the time also he is so much more settled.
I feel I have let you all down too I mean there are 5 pages in this thread now all full of wonderful support and advice and I feel as if Ive thrown it all back in your faces and Im sorry

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Tuesday, December 22nd 2009, 10:25pm

:hugs: awwww dont stress :hugs: esp. dont dtress what other ppl may or may not think. its your decision whatecer you do will right for you n bubs.
you know im doing what youve started to do and michaels doing okay. as for going back to full time b/f i presume its never too late. it is for me and will continue to express for as long as i can.
dont beat yourself up though :hugs: youve done brilliantly :xxx3:


re:dummies. they ones i use (when he wants them) is a tommee tippee twin pack. they mimic the action of the boob apparently.


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Tuesday, December 22nd 2009, 10:30pm

Thanks Poppit thats the dummys Iv been using so thats good to know.
You know I wanted to do this so badly and I worried about it so much and Ive ended up in exactly the place I didnt want to be, even after being told it was really hard and preparing myself I never thought it would be this hard. I take my hat off to anyone who has never gave their babies formula you truly are incredible and I wish I could start again so I could try harder, maybe Iv just not tried hard enough and now Iv seen the other side and how much easier it is its going to be even harder to go back.
He might start refusing boob soon which will break my heart but its my own fault

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Tuesday, December 22nd 2009, 10:58pm

Hi Pammy
Just wanted to hi and that thinking of you. You've given your lad a great start with breast milk from birth and if you decide its not the best way forward for you from now then don't beat yourself up about it. Remember that you're still recovering from birth, you've got post partum hormones rattling around (especially with the breast feeding), your tired and that this makes decision making really difficult (well thats what I found :) until around the 3 month mark).

I can't help so much with the sleep issue i'm afraid. Once E was asleep (and this took a few trials most evenings after feeding more or less on and off all evening and at times into the early hours lying down with me in bed) or I awoke to find him asleep I'd heave him over into his moses basket and he pretty much stay asleep. We didn't try him on the bottle until he was about 10 weeks old. I also had very limited patience with a dummy so after about 2 or 3 failed attempts at using it I gave up. He was not fooled by it.

How do you know about quantities when your mixing breast feeding and formula feeding? I ask as I'm now going to start trying to get E to take a sippy cup of formula late morning every day. Given up with bottle and had it with expressing.

take care and good luck tonight
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pamelag088

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Tuesday, December 22nd 2009, 11:07pm

Hey Jen thanks for your support

What I am doing at the mo is expressing as much as I can and giving him that and when he seems like he needs more I will make up a 4oz bottle and give him that. I found it so hard working it out too as I had no idea how much he was actually taking from me and am finding the sterilising to be the biggest pain ever.
You could try making up 4oz of formula and trying that and then if he wants more just make up 5 next time etc until you find the amount thats right for him.
Will he not take the bottle? TJ still not sure of it and doesnt seem to like the faster flow as he sucks so hard he chokes plus Im so parnoid about wind I am winding him every half oz :snigger: plus his poops smell so terrible too sorry TMI. Hope you get on good with the sippy cup

Thanks again for your support

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Wednesday, December 23rd 2009, 12:45am

defo dont beat yourself up about it....repeating what was said before youve given him a great start and have done the best you can. and as youre still expressing hes still getting all the goodies!
when i told both MW n HV about the EBM + formula they both said at least hes getting some breast milk which is better than none at all. it is time consuming but ....
on the other hand both my elder DSs were bottle feed (b/f them for about 2wks) and they are fine.


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Wednesday, December 23rd 2009, 1:37am

Hi Pammy, I hope you don't feel that because we 've been trying to support your breastfeeding that you are somehow obliged to continue. You have to do whatever makes you enjoy your baby, and if that means giving up b/f thenthat's what you must do - there's more to motherhood than b/f, and it doesn't mean you love him any less. Please don't feel you would be letting anyone down. You've done absolutely brilliantly, and no-one could have tried harder, so give yourself a pat on the back clap

If you decide that you want to continue to mix breast and bottle,that's fine, although it means more work. Don't worry about your milk "drying up" Your breasts will continue to produce milk as long as you continue to do ANY amount of b/f , particularly if you do it at night as you are at the moment, and TJ would benefit from that. If you don't feel ready to make a decision, carry on as you are and STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT !!!!!! smile2

p.s. I'm a little curious about you not being able to b/f downstairs.

I'm sorry I wasn't on earlier - I couldn't get into the site this morning for some reason. I've been busy wrapping presents tonight, and going with Fi and Annette ( my stepdaughter) to do the Christmas dinner shopping at 9 tomorrow. We probably have enough Tesco vouchers between us for the lot!!

I'll try to get on again before Fri but if I don't manage, have a lovely Christmas - relax and enjoy it!!

Love, xx

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Wednesday, December 23rd 2009, 10:04am

Aw Pammy, please don't beat yourself up about this, I know how you feel because when Jensen was born I wasn't producing colostrum properly and he had an inadequate suck due to his prematurity and I felt like a total failure when the MWs at the hospital had to give him formula as his blood sugar levels dropped, I couldn't even get him to take the stuff from me as he would choke and gag but the MWs were more forceful and managed to force it down him (of course I now know he's allergic to the stuff so that explains that).

You have already done so well and given TJ's digestive and immune system such a great start in life and the addition of a top up formula is not going to affect that, every time you BF him you pass on immunity to everything you and he have been exposed to regardless of whether you then top up with formula. BF is hard, back in the day when it was the norm you would have seen your mother BFing and probably other female relatives and would have not only had a source of information closer to home but also you would know what it's supposed to look like. Unfortunatly now, when you are unlikely to have witnessed it before, how are you supposed to know what it looks like or whats normal. I look at Jensen's latch every time and think is that right, what does a good latch look like? is he actually swallowing anything or just sucking etc etc. As Fi's Mum says the advice you've been given in these pages wasn't intended to make you feel obligated to continue to BF against what is best for both you and TJ, if nothing else, you have created a great thread with loads of advice for other people who may find themselves in the same situation, now they know they're not alone - sometimes feels like you're the only one in the entire world who ever had problems and everyone else is great at it (at least it does for me).

I found some great advice in my BFing book regarding bottle feeding, it suggests that when you feed you cuddle TJ against your chest, possibly with skin to skin contact, rather than in your arms, that way you are still getting the same closeness and cuddling you would have got while BFing and he can still look you in the face and make eye contact although you will also be BFing as well so you will still get this.

Ultimately your mental and physical wellbeing are far more important to TJ than the ability to BF exclusively so if supplimenting with a bottle improves this (and it sounds like it will as others will be able to help and you will be able to spend more time downstairs in adult company rather than shut away by yourself upstairs) then of course this is the way to go and don't let anyone make you feel guilty about that. Not so very long ago formula feeding was the recommended way of feeding and the children of that generation grew up without any problems! So forget about the guilt, you will have far more things during his lifetime to feel guilty about (no you can't have another biscuit/ferrari/pony etc)so don't stress about this, enjoy your time with him while he's so little as it only happens once and look forward to all the milestones you will start hitting soon as everyone tells me they change at 6 weeks and become much more entertaining!

Have a great first Christmas with him and have a few glasses of your favourite tipple!

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Grace" (Dec 23rd 2009, 10:04am)


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Thursday, December 24th 2009, 1:59am

Thank you very much Grace and Chris.
Today I managed to BF most of the day, only got 1 bottle of formula, expressing, sterilising boling kettle is tedious already but continue to do so, I feel things is so much better this way, not stressed out and I can enjoy my son which if Im totally honest I havent been doing up til now, felt like a chore whereas now I love his awake time as I am relaxed knowing if my boobs cant settle him I have other methods.
I am still living in the hope I can return to exclusve BF but think I know in my heart its more than likely not going to happen.

Chris re the not feeding downstairs, its very long and complicated story but my mums hubby is same age as my hubby which is only 4 years older than me and there have been instances in the past bla bla bla and when it comes right down to it I know I would be making people uncomfortable not to mention myself and its just easier and better for everyone if I dont.

TJ is gorgeous and he is smiling and Im finally feeling like Im getting to know him and love him dearly. he fell off his line slightly when he was weighed which also added to worry of is he getting enough, He still gained 10oz in 2 weeks which is great.

Im truly greatful for every single person who has supported me through the last month esp Chris for being there when times were really hard and I wish I could have wrote a thread in 6 months time to make everyone proud of me for getting through the tough times and sticking with it but I fear its not to be.

Also with expressing should I keep pumping once the milk stops? I have noticed if I switch boobs once it stops I can still get a good lot more but after switching maybe 3 times each boob and there nothing coming out should I keep pumping or am I wasting my time? Just want to make sure Im doing it right, I have a avent isis electric thing but much prefer the manual one as i cant work the electric one :snigger: but maybe if I learned to use the electric one I will get more milk out as tonight only got 2oz after 3 hours :sadface:

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Thursday, December 24th 2009, 12:40pm

Pammy, I haven't been around much as I've been unwell but I 'have' been watching this thread and needed to say that you have done really really well considering that you've spent over a month in your bedroom alone, recovering from childbirth, without a great deal of support and taking your advice from strangers over the internet. When you look at it like that, the fact you're still breastfeeding at all is amazing. In fact, I think you deserve a medal.

Now as far as I can see, you're still breastfeeding and you're supplementing with formula. It's quite possible, as Chris says, for you to carry on doing this indefinitely...especially if you're feeding during the night. In fact, it sounds like a lovely compromise if you feel happy, are able to spend more time downstairs, you enjoy your baby more and if TJ's more settled.

One day at a time, nothing's set in stone, go with what is best for YOU and take the advice that suits. Chin up flower, you're doing a grand job!





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Friday, December 25th 2009, 12:05am

Thanks Bells
Am starting to forgive myself slightly for not achieving what I hoped to, TJ still wants my boobs and is lovely that sometimes only they will do as tonight only settled comfort sucking on me which is so lovely. I am much happier this way which I never thought I would hear myself say or admit so much more relaxed Im still feeding on demand but have learned that its not always food he wants when he cries :snigger:
He is very stubborn with his sleep and fights it to the bitter end :snigger: but Im learning how to get round it and sometimes(i know i know) let him sleep in my arms for hours( I secretly love it)
well official merry christmas now so Im off to try and get some sleep before TJ wants another feed

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Monday, December 28th 2009, 9:23pm

Thats my milk starting to decrease already, expressed last night and got 2oz less than I normally do, If I feed him more during times supply less will my supply go back up again? would expressing do the same? Or does it have to be actual feeding?
My night supply is fine obviously as I have still been feeding, In fact I woke tis morning in agony with squirts going everywhere when he got near them but through the day when I havent been feeding they arent even going hard just staying soft.
Obvioulsy this is all my own fault but wondered if I can reverse it or if its too late?

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Monday, December 28th 2009, 11:04pm

It's certainly not too late to increase your supply by more frequent feeding, but it does have to be feeding rather than expressing. And you have to remember that the amount you can express is no guide to the amount you are producing. TJ will always get more out than your pump. Your breasts respond to feeding by producing more milk, which is why they feel softer during the day when you're not b/f. Your body knows it doesn't need to produce milk during the day. If you added another feed at some point during the day, your body will respond to that. Very clever eh? :)

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Sunday, January 3rd 2010, 1:51am

Hey all

Still feeding through the night just problem is he has starting sleeping so much longer at night so not needing so much milk, Crazy how quickly it decreases, When DH goes back to work on tuesday it should be less hectic and Il be at home more through the day so am going to try hard to get him to feed more through the day.
Here is my questions, He is currently taking 5/6 oz every 3 hours, He has a bad habbit of falling asleep at breast and I know he hasnt taken a full feed, will my milk be enough to satisfy his hunger with the supply decreasing? Should I feed from both breasts til he stops then top up or leave him after the breastfeed even if he still seems hungry? He is very greedy with the bottle and never falls asleep with his feeds as I dont think he has learned how to stop the flow and has no choice but to keep going, I think he would happily guzzle any amount offered but with the boobs he can control when he sucks etc and therefore just falls asleep.
Im only managing to express around 10oz a day which I know isnt representive of what Im making but obviously not enough to give him EBM all the time.
Is it possible to ever go back to exclusive feeding now? Or is it too much? I know it would be a nightmare til my supply catches up but if I know it will and eventually I will have enough it will be worth it in my mind.

Im making a right arse of this arent I? Chopping and changing, He has been amazing and apart from his tantrums when he is fighting sleep is such a good little boy, Hardly cries and very contented and settled into a lovely routine which I know prob wont continue if I go back to BF as I get so worried he is hungry I feed him all the time which I know he doesnt need and with him falling asleep at boob he just snacks all day too.

Ok in summary after all that jumble mess up there

If I try to go a full day exclusivly BF should I top up still as I wont be making near as much as he taking now? He still refuses to suck when flow slows down

Is it possible to get my supply back to what he needs or is it too late?

How do I get him to take full feeds instead of snacking and falling asleep every half hour?

Also Im noticing when expressing last few days, letdown is taking way longer to achieve used to flow immediatly now takes a good 30 secs of fast pumping to get it flowing, Is this because my supply less?

One more(honest) Im noticing a stinging feeling in my boob(not nipple) when he cries or due a feed it happens in both of them at same time and feels like a nipping feeling that lasts a few mins can actually be quite sore, Any ideas if this is ok or someting I should be worried about?

If anyone has reached the end of this post, congratulations :snigger: And if anyone can answer any of my questions I would be most grateful

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Sunday, January 3rd 2010, 3:01am

Hi Pammy, It's not too late to get back to exclusive b/fl You need to go right back to frequent (maybe 1-2 hrly) for a few days to give your supply a kick start. The easiest way to do that is to stay in bed together with skinto skin contact and feed whenever TJ asks.Keep him on one side till he stops by himself, then offer the other. Even if the feeds are only 5 or 10 mins, they will be fine. If after this you still feel the need to top up sometimes that's ok. Play it by ear.

The tingling feeling you're getting is the feeling you get just before letdown happens. Your body is responding to TJ crying or feeding.When you feel it, if you can , put him to the breast immediately and he'll get a feed.Your body is reaching a stage where it can make milk while your baby is feeding,and doesn't need to store it in advance, so you don't have the full feeling before a feed like before. Your breasts are becoming more efficient.

How quickly is he falling asleep at the breast? He could take a full feed in 5 mins remember.

30 seconds isn't long to wait for letdown when you're pumping - your body doesn't respond to a pump the way it does to your baby. Women who have to express for their prem babies are encouraged to look at their baby, or a picture of the baby and think about them, while they're pumping to stimulate letdown.

Expressing 10ozs is pretty good going.

I think I've answered all your questions (have to keep going back and reading again)

You haven't made an arse of things. I think you're a breastfeeder at heart, but were just very anxious and lacking in confidence,and terrified that TJ was going to starve!

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Sunday, January 3rd 2010, 3:08am

This keeps happening to me -- the post comes up before I've finished, and I definitely have not pressed "submit" Then when I try to edit immediately it tells me you can only edit posts within 1 min -- I did !!!
I only wanted to add ---you can do it girl !!
Love,
xx

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Sunday, January 3rd 2010, 12:21pm

Thanks Chris

He is falling asleep fairly quickly maybe 2 mins and then he will wake rooting around for nipple again after 5 mins this is what makes it difficult to know when he is finished as he doesnt come off on his own once he is sleeping he grips with his gums :snigger: so I cant slide him off, Iv tried blowing gently and moving his position taking him off with my pinky but when he goes back on again same again.
There are some times he will take an awake feed and feeds around 20 mins when he is acually feeding.

Ah so this is letdown :snigger: I wondered, Body seems to know when he due a feed as it can happen before he even starts to cry.

Today so far all been BF'ing(partly cuz I cant be arsed going down and making a bottle :snigger: ) and he seems satisfied with what he has had so far, Its when he starts the on off screaming I know its going to be difficult, sometimes its cuz he is tired but others I think he is hungry and just getting frustrated. He does same with bottle when he is full and wants to sleep

I think to myself Im lucky he is still feeding from me at all, Poor boy must be so confused with nipple/bottle and dummy all being shoved in his mouth,

Thanks very much Chris again you've been a big help, This is going to be tough as Iv seen how good it can be but if I can achieve the same contented baby in a routine without the bottle then I will be a very happy bunny

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Monday, January 4th 2010, 11:49am

Jensen does the same thing during the night, latches on sucks for a minute and then drops off. The solution is to make sure one of your hands is really, really cold and when he falls asleep just pop a couple of fingers (or even your whole hand) inside his jimjams near his tummy, that'll wake him up (GP recommended this method) Jensen then usually feeds for another few minutes and drops off so we repeat, eventually he doesn't wake up no matter how cold my hand is and I know he's full and has fallen asleep properly. You could also try tickling him, massaging his hands or removing him and relatching (stick your finger carefully into the corner of his mouth to break the suction and open his mouth slightly before removing nipple!)

You're doing great though as whenever I express all I get out is about 1-2 oz yet I must be producing way more than that but my boobies don't like the pump, maybe it's cos it makes me feel like a dairy cow!

Shame we live so far apart as we're so close with our babies, do you have any baby/parent groups you can go to? you might be able to find a fellow breastfeeder to go for a coffee with and swap tips.


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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Grace" (Jan 4th 2010, 11:52am)


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Tuesday, January 5th 2010, 2:42am

Thanks Grace

I only get 1-2 oz too but am trying to express as often as I can so thats over a whole day.

Well tomorrow is d day so to speak. Im going to be stressed, worried and have a very unhappy baby I just know it, I tried to feed beyond 1 and he was having none of it, Back to his refusing to suck carry on and this time I know there was milk there but he latched, capered, pulled then screamed, hadnt taken much and I couldnt settle him so off I went for bottle, Im going to offer breasts first every time and see if 1 it will encourage him to suck and 2 to increase my diminishing supply.
His night and morning feed he is taking no probs but I leave them so they are full the way he likes them.

I honestly cant imagine what it must be like to feed baby and everything to be ok and normal, I still dont understand why he doesnt keep feeding, I know he is hungry but he just wont stay, it makes me so upset. Will see how I get on

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Tuesday, January 5th 2010, 10:02am

Hi Pammy,

It's positive that TJ is happy taking his morning and night feeds.

As Chris says spending a couple days in bed, feeding TJ frequently will help with re-establishing breastfeeding. Make sure you are eating and drinking enough, and rest as much as you can, as your body will be working hard.
I know you've had alot of problems with TJ pulling off the breast, and you may find that he becomes frustrated to begin with, when you offer the breast, during the day, as he has got used to the flow/feel of the bottle. However, you say he can also pull of when having a bottlefeed, so as you say, it may well be that he is tired, or full. (L pulls off the breast at the end of a feed, and can get a bit agitated too!).

You are doing so well, under difficult circumstances. Am I remembering rightly that you have quite a few appointments this week, involving long journeys? Make sure you aren't putting too much on yourself, and be kind to yourself! Also, when you mentioned mixed feeding, giving TJ formula/EBM during the day, and breastfeeding evevnings/night/first thing in the morning, am I right in thinking this meant you were able to get out and about more/spend more time downstairs? These things, getting out, meeting other Mum's and babies etc, are all really important for your wellbeing too. If you feel that was working for you, and you feel happy, continuing that way of mixed feeding could also be an option? It's all about finding what works best for you and TJ, and your day to day life.

Will pop back later, see how you are xxx

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "compley" (Jan 5th 2010, 10:05am)


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Wednesday, January 6th 2010, 11:40am

Thanks hun

Well got on ok yesterday, Had downstiars all to myself last night and so just fed him constantly, He did have 2 bottles but out of 10 feeds I was very pleased how the day went, He did have his screamy tantrums but I felt much more able to deal with them knowing if it got too much for me I didnt have to upset myself and could get a couple oz made up o calm him down but didnt need to.

Most difficult thing about doing this at the mo is being all out of routine but he still slept his long sleep a night and seemed content althoug he didnt really sleep during the day, There is no pattern emerging yet with daytime naps he very much likes to sleep in my arms during day and second I lay him down he is awake again and although I love lying with him its not pracical when things need doing so he only sleeps about 10 mins at a time during day.

Have another day today and so far only breastmilk he has had, Hopefully we get on good today as not going out too cold :snigger:

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Wednesday, January 6th 2010, 6:40pm

Its still early but no formula yet for TJ
He been feeding bang on every hour for around 6 mins of sucking and another 10 of comfort, falling asleep sucking Iv done 8 feeds today so far, boobs dont know whats hit them :snigger: They are completely deflated but somehow they are filling just enough to keep him going another hour. I havent been feeding from 1 til around 10 for almost 2 weeks so that is time they dont fill normally and am really hoping all this feeding today will give my supply a big boost.
Does anyone know how long my body will take to respond to all the feeding? Iv been very happy today staying in bed with him playing with him but hope tonight he still goes down ok as I know tiredness may ruin everything..
Hope I can manage rest of night not needing formula as its been a very long time since Iv managed a whole day just breastmilk

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Wednesday, January 6th 2010, 6:51pm

Hey Pammy. Well done you!

It may take 24-48 hours for the milk supply to catch up with the increase in demand so keep going for as long as you can if you want to try to get back to solely breastmilk.

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Wednesday, January 6th 2010, 8:21pm

Well done Pammy, you are doing a fab job! xxx



<

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Wednesday, January 6th 2010, 11:34pm

clap Well done Pammy!!!!! Try not to think about routine for now. Just do what you're doing. If he's having a long sleep at night, he will need to feed more often during the day. You are sounding much more confident now - what a difference!! thumbup

Are you snowed in up there? Really cold eh :winter:

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Thursday, January 7th 2010, 12:22am

Hey Chris

Yup snow really bad here now, think we got off lightly though as only been from last night its been laying, roads closed all over the place and abandoned cars everywhere thas got stuck.

Well not sure if he is down now for a long sleep or if he will be up in an hour, I gave him 4oz of formula at about 9 :sadface: He is preferring my right side, Thought it before but now its obvious he likes to comfort suck on that side only and only feed off other for short time.

Overall I am very pleased with how today has went, still have the night to face, been getting 7 hours for a while now and think it will be a shock to the system going back to 3 or 4 times a night, do you think he will cluster through the night too cuz he knows supply low? I guess I will find out :snigger:

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Thursday, January 7th 2010, 1:02am

Maybe not, if he does a lot of feeding in the evening. You really are sounding so much happier, and more relaxed. :)

Snow's been lying here for a while, but they're managing to keep the main roads clear.

Just took down the Christmas tree and cards tonight - the room looks really bare, and I'm knackered!! Think I'll go to bed. zzzz

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Thursday, January 7th 2010, 1:06am

Night night hun

I am more relaxed esp when he was feeding every hour I knew he wasnt hungry and he was having 20mins od smiley happy playing time in between which proved he couldnt have been hungry, got bit much when I gave the formula, wasnt sucking at all and rooting everywhere so I didnt want to get all in a state and ruin the lovely day by crying :snigger:

no bed for me yet, TJ up again :P

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Friday, January 8th 2010, 12:09pm

Had another good day yesterday, Got another 4oz at around 9 as he was shattered he had been up since 6 and never went to sleep til 11 and so was very cranky, refusing to sleep or suck but that was it.

I know things are going well but I still feel Im never going to get into routine this way, Because I have no idea when he will be hungry Im feeding him all the time again which I know is good for my supply but Im not catching when he is crying cuz he is tired, bored etc and am scared it will never be how others describe, baby goes to boob has a feed and thats them for next 2-3 hours, he doesnt stay long enough to go tha long.

Sometimes I only hear him swallowing about 30 secs before going to dummy like sucking where I know he isnt eating, dont know if that means milk is done as when they full he will swallow for ages, or he wasnt particulary hungry,

I know it sounds like Im losing confidence but Im not, If I could carry on in bed with him forever it would be no probelm but I know at some point we will be back out in society(if weather ever lets up :snigger: ) and feeding every half hour is not something I want to do forever, just doesnt feel normal if there is such a thing

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Friday, January 8th 2010, 2:14pm

Pammy
Thanks for droping into my thread. Just stopping by to say that I think you are doing great!!! Breastfeeding can be tough and you are persevering and doing so well!! I decided this week that a month was enough, I couldnt do it anymore and I really admire those of you who can.
Take care and well done again
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Friday, January 8th 2010, 3:20pm

Hey Pammy, I think that once this snow clears and life resumes as normal things will improve. My girls are both stir crazy being stuck in with boring old Mum (that's me by the way :D ) and I think much of the country feel the same way. TJ's probably as fed up with four walls as we are.

If you're out and TJ's being distracted by the world around him he's much less likely to be snacking and spend les time getting himself het up over nothing. Are there any local Mums and tots groups you can get along to? A bit of 'structure' sometimes helps a routine fall into place.





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Friday, January 8th 2010, 7:56pm

Cheers Bells

HV gave me a list we can go to after his first imms. Need to get out and about again this is awful being stuck inside.

He has been very sleepy today, waking up hungry, swallowing a few mins then dropping off again, Think I need o get someone to watch a feed from start to finish to make sure everything is spot on as I am feeling the letdown now and after it he stops sucking after a few short mins, dont know if its a lack of milk, a latch problem or if he really is just not willing to work hard for his milk(dont blame him after so many bottles) and if so how to work round that problem.

Dont feel an increase in supply yet, have been shoving in a night feed too last few nights as he hasnt been going his usual length of time which is to be expected going back to breastmilk, and Im so pleased changing his nappies now and seeing my reward of lovely mustardy(much better smelling) poo's :D

Im so pleased Iv done this as I really wasnt ready to quit and Im sure TJ wasnt either, I really hope I can build my supply up enough so he has plenty as now he is taking from both boobs every feed, he hasnt been inconsolable as he was before but still coming off and crying normally stops when I switch to his favourite boob :snigger:

Cant wait to report an exclusive day :D

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Friday, January 8th 2010, 10:24pm

Pammy just wanted to drop by & say it sounds like you are doing great honey :happy: As Bells said once you get out & about you will find TJ will go longer between feeds i am sure. I find that with B even now. If we are out shopping or whatever she will go much longer than the days we are at home. Stick in there honey you are doing really well sticking at it & once you are exclusively BF & have that routine its FAB. I am so glad i sought help (thanks again BELLS :P ) when i had problems as i too was on the verge of quitting but since we got fully established niether me or B have looked back. Take care & xfingers this weather lets up soon x
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Friday, January 8th 2010, 11:49pm

quickie as staying up way past my bedtime but just wanted to say well done for sticking in there! :D
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Friday, January 15th 2010, 1:25am

Howdy all

Not much to report, Im still giving one or two top ups a day probably more to do with conifemce than actual need. Sad to think if I had carried on I would probably be a pro by now and be well established.
My main problem at the mo is lack of support I think(think it always has been) not from FZ as you have all been brilliant but from home, I feed at my sisters and am comfortable as she has said she doesnt mind and Im relaxed there but when Im at home still feel I have to choose to be upstairs all day and BF or get some company and bottle feed.
Went to diet class(dont worry Im not dieting just getting back to healthy eating) and consultant asked me how feeding was going, You know its the first real person I have ever spoke to who actually breastfed and knew what I was talking about as she fed both hers for a year and came away feeling full of confidence and she even offered help when I said I was struggling, If I had someone like that from beginning I dont think I would be here, just constantly being on edge wanting to BF him but almost being embarrased to walk out room with him cuz everyone will know what Im doing, Its silly but its way I feel.

Iv started feeding him in bathroom, solves the problem of taking him up and downstairs which I really struggle with and I just pray he doesnt look hungry aferwards so everyone knows I can do it and it satisfies him same as a bottle. Sometimes he just wants to comfort suck and wont settle and he buries his face when others try to settle him and Im even embarrased to say he does that cuz he wants boob.

Huh why are people here so against BF? Honestly to god I tell people Im BF and they look at me with disgust as if to say, why n earth would you want to do that when there are bottles? Even had one person actually say, Stop BF and come and get pissed with us, bottles are best anyway. OMG cheers for the support.
Im so pleased with myself Iv got this far even though slightly disappointed its not exclusive, TJ loves it and I love it and I wish I could do it everywhere all the time and sod everyone else

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Friday, January 15th 2010, 8:53am

Pammy, hello dear, sorry things are not easy... I actually don't agree with you, I don't BF anymore (well I pump and give my DD about 50ml per day or less), I tried my best at least this is what I feel but I simple don't have milk, anyway... I feel absolutely opposite, I am devasted that I don't BF and I constantly meet people who tell me about their great BF experience (oh I was like a cow for so many months BFing ha ha ha....... then I come home and cry and cry and cry because I am not a cow/hehe in this meaning... and I don't have milk and I can't provide the best for my DD) and how great is to BF and how important it is so me not BFing feeling SOOOOOOO bad and wrong because EVERYBODY doing this and can do this and managing just fine (so what is wrong with you?) so what I am saying: you are doing great, you are doing right thing and I am sorry that person "come and get pissed with us" simply.......... okay I won't say :) and YOU ARE SO LUCKY you can do it (I wish I could, this is where I am crying).... so best of luck and keep BFing.

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Friday, January 15th 2010, 9:03am

hehehe just in case of any misunderstanding - "what is wrong with you?" - I meant with ME of course.

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