FertilityZone

Oh Pammy!

Obviously I have no experience to give you or pearls of wisdom but I am sure that Bells will be along in a bit and you know how wonderful and calming she is.

I am sure, however, that you are doing a wonderful job and that you derserve a huge big hug.

Keep calm, helpful people (unlike me who just rants on) will be along soon I am sure.

x

pammy I am sure you are doing a brilliant job, breastfeeding is not easy! they make it look natural but it takes a lot of babies and mummies to be able to do it. my sister struggled too.

If it gets too much, you can switch to bottle and you should not feel guilty or bad if you do that, you can only do what you can do.

I am sure some others will be along who know what they are talking about!!! just wanted to give you some support.

Aww Pammy, sounds like you are having a tough time.

TJ is coming up to 3 weeks old now, so he may be having a growth spurt, and so he could well want to feed constantly. This can last a few days, whilst they are trying to 'up' their supply, and then settles down again.

Some babies can feed and drain a breast quite quickly, so the amount of time a baby actually feeds for can vary.

How is he latching on? Does that seem to be going ok? When you change sides, do you wind him/does he seem windy? (It's just that L often gets quite fractious when she has wind, and I find that after being winded, she can become more settled, and feed a bit more.
I'm just wandering, as he seems quite unsettled between feeds, whether he may possibly be a bit windy, and this could be causing a bit of discomfort?

Just a couple of thoughts there, I'm sure the other ladies will be along soon, with some help xxx

Just a thought hun, but how is your diet right now? I know in these early days it can be really tricky to get nutritious meals in you, but now is the time that you need a large amount of 'good' calories. (As well as a fair amount of not so good ones I have to say! ) I have always found that after eating protein my milk fills Lochlan up better and my supply is more plentiful too. In the early weeks after having him I used to get a good supply of chicken breasts and frying steak in, and each lunch time I would have salad with either a grilled chicken breast or steak (yummy). It helps to get your hemoglobin levels back to normal too, which in turn helps you to process food properly.

It may be that TJ seems to be 'emptying' your breast, but just because it goes soft it doesn't mean that the milk has gone. Your milk ducts will be letting down, and indeed you may find that you get a second let down sensation. It is really tough to carry on at this point as you're tired out and it seems like your little one is really not satisfied.

A good way to get back on track is to feed TJ, and then do whatever you can to occupy him for at least 3 hours. Bath him, take him out in the car or for a walk, have someone round to help you walk around with him and bounce him and jiggle him. Do whatever it takes but don't feed for the whole 3 hours. By the time you feed him again, he will be very hungry and your boobs will have rested and replenished. It may take 24 hours of this to get the rhythm going again, so if you can have someone stay with you all the better. In between this you need to eat every 3 hours too, and drink LOADS of water. And I mean loads. Just keep filling up a bottle or glass and keep swilling it back. The extra fluid in your body will help your body manufacture more fluid for your baby ie milk. You will pee like a racehorse but it's only a temporary thing so bear with it.

It really is worth persevering with this hun. I'd hate for you to get 6 weeks down the line and really regret giving up. These early days are tough, but you can get through it I'm sure. I for one found the early days really tough. I had mega cracked nipples which made it awfully hard to latch Lochlan on, and I went through times when I really thought there was nothing there for him. But here we are 8 months down the line and still breast feeding happily. Forget about doing anything at al around the house and just concentrate on getting your supply increased. Everything else can wait mate. It'll either get done or it won't!

Hope this helps hun.

Oh Pammy

At the end of the day you have to do what makes you feel right but if you want to continue breastfeeding then the support is out there for you. And if you want to move to formula feeding then the support is there too for that and no-one will judge you - as you shouldn't judge yourself.

What do you want to do hun?

Laura's right - it could be a growth spurt and you're waiting for your supply to catch up with demand. Also your boobs will never get as full as those days in the first week when your milk came in. It doesn't mean that there's not milk there, nor that TJ is not getting it. Do you remember what Chris said about effective feeders taking most of their milk in the first 5 minutes? It may be that TJ is doing this. Please don't view how good you are at this and how much milk he's getting by your boobs being full. Actually it's far more likely to be the case that your supply and the amount of times you offer a feed matches his demands and feeding habits if your boobs aren't becoming masively full inbetween times. The wind might also be an issue. Make sure you're winding him fully after feeds, and part way through as well if need be.

Are you getting out and about much? I remember you saying that you're at your mums in one room with your OH and the dogs. That must be tough for you. I know that when baby bubble was small I thought every cry was for food and then I couldn't understand why it wasn't placating her. Sometimes they just need a change of scenery, like you do. After a feed and change today can you try to get out and about? Even if it's just for a walk somewhere? Even if he won't sleep the cries outside never sound as bad - believe me, I've walked for hours with a screaming baby!! Get yourself a thick coat, get a snowsuit on TJ and get out there - regardless of the weather.

Can you also look into seeing if there is a breastfeeding counsellor near you who can come and have a look at how he's latching on and watch him having a feed? It may be that the fussing is because he's not actually latching on properly and is having a few problems getting comfy. Has he been checked for a tongue tie?

x

Pam, I really feel for you. I echo what MrsS says, I think you need to be looking after yourself better. He probably is going through a growth spurt, it is such hard work isn't it? Are you certain your positioning is spot on, is he opening his mouth wide, are you lying him with his tummy facing yours so that he isn't having to turn his head to get your nipple? When he is on the breast is he making swallowing sounds? Can you possibly get to a breastfeeding group or contact an advisor to get them to check? If you are happy with all of that, then I would advise that you go to bed with him for a couple of days and feed and rest, take a big bottle of juice or water and some sandwiches and of course the essential packet or 3 of minstrels.

Cor Pammy you're on a rollercoaster ride aren't you?! It's full time isn't it and your mind is working constantly critiquing your choices, actions and results.

I can tell you with certainty that almost every single woman who has successfully breastfed their baby has been at exactly the point you are at right now. Empty boobs, worried about supply, a fretful baby and a massive dip in confidence. I can also tell you that the Mummies who give formula have a very different set of worries but they too find ways to beat themselves up and worry themselves sick. It may seem like a bottle will fix everything but it isn't a magic potion that suddenly fixes all, it's just milk... but in a bottle. The main benefit of giving milk in a bottle is that you can see how much there is and therefore you can tick off the 'is he getting enough???' from your list. In fact, a few days ago you were saying how TJ eats so much that he's literally overflowing and bringing milk back up... so the answer to your questions are this...

Do you have milk? - Yes you do.

Is it any good or is it crappy? - It's the absolute best stuff available in the entire world? Bespoke and made especially by the very body that created and grew TJ. As the ladies up there ^ said, you need to feed your body with foods and liquids so that you can produce a plentiful supply of milk, you must nourish your own body in order to nourish his.

Will a bottle help him? - It may help you. At his age his tummy is still the same size as a marble and filling it with milk literally stretches the stomach which can cause colic, constipation and discomfort. The stomach is designed to be filled little and often, just as frequent breastfeeding does.

I'd also like to echo the suggestion to wind him during his feed. As soon as your milk has let down and he has gone from frantic sucking to a slower pace I'd sit him up on your lap with your hand under his chin so that he's leaning only slightly forward, help straighten his back and firmly rub his back from bottom to top, trying not to tip him too far forward. If you don't get a burp or two then keep going for a minute. It's incredibly common for babies to swallow a load of wind in the first minute of feeding as the milk comes out so fast.

I keep saying this but when you have a newborn a minute feels like an hour, an hour feels like a day, a day feels like a week and a week seems like forever. A few days ago you were doing brilliantly and in a few days more you will be again. Although it seems like you've been doing this forever you must remind yourself that you have a brand new baby and this is the hardest work you will ever do. You're not alone in feeling as though things are all going pear shaped and it WILL get better.

Hi Pammy, sorry your having a tough time, i don't have any pearls of wisdom for you as Alex isn't a hungry baby and had to been bottle fed from the 1st week but just wanted to send you my support and best wishes. These babies are everything to us and it is very hard to know what to do for the best sometimes but i'm sure you are a fab mum and doing a great job.

Oh Pammy! I think you could do with a hug !! Bells is right - we've all been there - screaming baby and you don't know how to get him to stop! You end up cuddling him and crying too. This too shall pass!! She's right with all the other stuff too. How could your milk be crappy? Not possible. Can you feel the letdown happening? Being as anxious as you seem to be can delay the letdown, so after TJ gets the foremilk, the main course doesn't arrive soon enough and he gets frustrated and pulls back and comes off and screams - that makes you more anxious. His frequent feeding is possibly because your supply hasn't quite caught up with the demand. But remember he was overflowing a couple of days ago, so there's nothing wrong with your ability toi make enough milk for him. Babies swallow a lot of air when they cry, and it's almost impossible for a crying baby to latch on, If he's crying he needs to be calmed down before you try to get him latched on.Laying him on his tummy on your lap can sometimes help, particularly if he has a windy tum. You say your appetite hasn't been good - you know you need an extra 400 - 500 calories a day. That's important if you're going to be well. So look after yourself - I would also prescrbe a glass of wine (or whatever your tipple is) tonight. And ignore housework!! Hope it gets better soon!

Hi hon,

I don't have any wise words, but I do have a mahoosive that's winging its way towards you. You're doing such a good job sweetie, I'm sorry it's so hard at the moment. xxx

Before letdown you feel a build up of pressure behind the nipple, then a kind of warm tingly whoosh and baby's rapid sucking changes to slow rhythmic deep sucks with little pauses. Sometimes you find milk leaking or even spurting from the other breast. It's quite difficult to describe the sensation but I've done my best.Does any of that seem familiar?

for me letdown feels a bit like pins and needles and oddly enough I usually feel it most in the other boob then notice LO is gulping more rythmically on the other one. I didnt feel letdown for a start, then noticed it at about 5 weeks in, I think from watching his mouth and realising a tingling was going on sometimes, it can be quite subtle. Hey some people never feel it, sometimes I feel it lots and all the time, and not at other times. Its weird.

Pammy, my man used to get the nipple then act like it was trying to choke him and spit it out like something had attacked his throat :-). I guess everything is odd and irritating to them for a start.

I totally agree with Bells, every minute feels like an hour etc. Honestly the first month felt like a year, at 6 weeks something just changes and it gets better, time speeds up again, the first stretch is hell (least it was for me, I swore I was never having more children and everything) I know its hard, main thing is to hang in there, look after yourself and dont be afraid to ask for help and let others lend a hand. Before I had baby mum said she would be coming over a couple of times a week, I thought she would drive me mad but now I hang on for her to come those 2 days a week, even if all she does is pick Cody up and cuddle him for an hour and I grab a cuppa. While your mums bathing him, make sure you do something really nice for yourself to relax... massage from DH, a bath yourself, even just curl up for 20min with a book or something.

Honesty I dont know what it is that changes but you do come out the other side of the chaos! xx

Fast suckiing for 10 secs followed by slow sucks sounds like letdown isn't delayed at all. If he does slow rhythmic sucking for a few minutes then stops,instead of compressing your breast you could try making him hold your finger, then pull his arm up steadily and hold, so he has to grip and hold on - that should encourage him to start feeding again if he's still hungry. Allow little rests, then pull again. When he's had enough, he won't pull against you, and his arm will become floppy

Pammy, if he's doing slow sucks then he is getting milk. It doesn't have to come out in jets throughout the feed like it does at the beginning.

Quoted

Originally posted by pamelag088

He feeds fine while its coming fast but as soon as slows down he doesnt like it, He stops and comes off and goes back on with slow sucks as before and I dont think anything is coming out, there is still milk there as when I squeeze it comes out but not in jets as at the start.

That 'sounds' normal. At first you may get jets of milk spurting out, enough for baby to choke, cough and splutter... but then it slows and there's no way of knowing if there's anything coming out apart from when you push against your nipple. Your baby 'should go from fast furious sucks to slow deeper sucks. That much is normal.

Pammy, I don't 'think' it sounds like a problem with flow. I think you just have a new baby and you're both getting to grips with it. A period of unsettled behaviour is consistent with a growth spurt and to hell with having to explain it to anyone else. YOU are breastfeeding YOUR baby and I know it's hard and you're worried but honestly, it doesn't sounds like it's going badly... even though it sounds like it's hard work for you.

Pammy, is he having the first breast until the milk slows down and then swapping to the other breast? If so is that because he fusses as soon as it slows? If that's the case then part of the problem could be too much foremilk.

mmmmmm

Which position have you tried?

Pammy if you're switching quickly between breasts then he's probably only getting foremilk and therefore is less likely to be satisfied. He needs to get the slow rhymthic sucking going to get the hindmilk which is richer and will fill him up better. Could you try perservering on one breast for longer? I know you said he frets but he once he figures out that stayer there will reap the rewards of the richer hindmilk things might become easier. Switching him to and fro might well be confusing him. I still think it's be a good idea to get someone to observe a feed to see if they could advise face to face. Go to the group tomorrow and see?

Also btw I never felt a strong let down - just this feeling of thirst sometimes so don't worry if you're not feeling it strongly - it doesn't mean it's not happening.

You could try him in a rugby hold... just to see if a more upright position with eye contact would help him.

Pammy, if you're really upset about this and you feel bad then a single bottle isn't going to be the end of the world, it isn't going to put the nail in the coffin of breastfeeding and it might just give you some breathing space to get your confidence up and look at it again.

Anyone can see how hard you're working here and it sounds as if you're muddling through alone. Be kind to yourself Pammy, you're really doing extremely well despite feeling otherwise.

Not everyone can express, I wouldn't worry about not getting much out. Baby does it much better.Talking of positions, have you tried the rugby hold?

We keep cross-posting Bells

I can't express so please don't take that as being representative.

Ok, this is what I would do if I was you...

Get him weighed (I think you said you could tomorrow?) and see how much he's gained. This might give you the confidence to be sure that he is getting enough (especially bearing in mind you thought he was overflowing a couple of days ago).

Go to the group and ask someone to observe a feed to see what their advice is. Ask them also to show you some different positions so you can see if this helps.

Try tomorrow to get out and about again so that he goes longer between feeds. If he is hungrier - rather than just regularly snacking - it may be that he stays on long enough for the hindmilk. This is going to be difficult so as not to allow him to get so hungry that he's hysterical when you try and feed him. Maybe try leaving him 2/3 hours after the first feed of the morning which, generally speaking, tends to be a good one for most babies.

Go to bed. Now. And get some sleep.

You know he might just want to be awake after some of his feeds? Although he will sleep a lot in the first few weeks he will also have a fair bit of awake time (I think about 6 hours is the average at his age). So just because he can't sleep afterwards it doesn't mean that he isn't full. So distractions like walks and short games and singing etc might be what he needs? Also this is where I think winding might come in, he may just be too uncomfortable to sleep/settle.

Anyway. Sleep tight for now.

Goodnight, and try to stop worrying, I'm sure you're going to be fine.

Glad you had a good night, and the morning feed went well. Hope you get on ok with the HV today.

With L, even though I know she isn't hungry (as she has just been fed!), if she is tired, she will sometimes root/suck her fingers, until she is given her dummy (she usually only takes the dummy when tired). I think a baby's urge to suck/be comforted this way can be quite strong, and they will look for what they can (breast/fingers etc), to do that, but it doesn't always mean they are hungry.

xxx

Hi Pammy, glad to hear things are looking up for you. Tj could still have been getting too much foremilk without having green poo, it might just be a bit frothy.
Things could be better today because your body has responded to the frantic feeding over the last couple of days and your supply has increased.
If he's satisfied with a dummy then he's not hungry - a hungry baby will refuse a dummy.
Hopefully you'll begin to enjoy feeding and worry less as you get to know your baby. All this is a very new experience for both of you. TJ follows his instincts, maybe you'll learn soon to do the same.
Well done for persevering in the face of difficulties (like a screaming baby that you don't know how to deal with!!)
Welcome to motherhood - and you thought ttc was a rollercoaster!!!

Pammy, thats awesome news, well done you! They have so many growth spurts at the start, good to know thats what it probably was, I remember it used to feel like I got 2-3 good days then 2-3 bad, such a rollarcoaster huh! Good on you for sticking with it, so many give up, I know I almost did too, but its so worth it in the end, as you end up with a free food supply on tap that goes everywhere with you and doesnt need heating or sterilising :-) And extra close cuddly time wih adoring eyes once they settle into it.

Pammy, that's a fab gain, and you should be really proud that YOU have fed and grown TJ!

I think getting out and about with a young baby, balanced with giving yourself a bit of time to rest, when you can, can be helpful, for you and them! I know both H and L have often been more settled when I've got them in the pram/car and got out for a bit, they seem to have been soothed to sleep, sleep for longer, and I've often been able to get to where I'm going, and have more of a rest/a hot cuppa, whilst they snooze!!

Well done too, on feeding in front of your sister. It can take alot of courage to start feeding in front of other people, especially if the feed isn't a smooth one! Another hurdle you've overcome today!

xxx

Perfect weight gain Pammy So how come you still think your supply is not enough??? Your feeding is still getting established, it may take another week or two before ut settles and you feel confident with it. You have to trust your body to continue doing what it did in pregnancy - grow your baby!! And it's doing just that!!! I think TJ will make sure your supply is enough. He's growing well - and that's all down to you!!! Isn't that a wonderfully satisfying feeling??!! Well done!!

Will he settle with a dummy? Don't worry about time between feeds -he'll sort it out himself -baby led feeding means just that - let him dcide when he feed.
I see you pointed Poppit in our direction

I've been thinking, how much formula did you give him before? It was possibly a bigger volume than he would have been getting at the breast, so it would have stretched his stomach, and he would not feel full until he got that amount of breastmilk. Just a thought.
How about dummy + cuddle?

How about your finger?