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Grace

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Wednesday, December 9th 2009, 6:14am

Trouble feeding

I don't really expect any answers to this one as I suspect there aren't any at this point but thought I'd see if anyone has had anything similar.

Jensen is almost 2 weeks old and is still losing weight, most of the time he feeds well every 2 hours and latches on for between 10 and 45 minutes, however, every 3 or 4 days he suddenly shows little interest in food for about 24 hours, he asks for it then just plays with the nipple and won't latch and is either sleeping or screaming with nothing in between I think this is probably when he loses the majority of the weight. When he's not like this he's quite a happy baby.

The MW says that his latch was wrong as he was latching too centrally and he would have been feeding inefficiently, he throws uo formula within 10 minutes of eating it if I tryto top him up(he never throws up breast milk). I've tried cutting out lactose from my diet but it seems to have made little difference and the MW is now talking about us being re-admnitted to hospital for tests and monitoring if he doesn't put on weight in the next 48 hours. I don't know what else to try and I'm just at my wits end, why would an otherwise healthy baby periodically show no interest in food for 24 hours and scream? at first I thought it was colic but when he screams he stretches out and arches his back rather than drawing his knees to his chest. I fed him for about 8 mins at midnight and he's wanted nothing since, I gave him formula at 4:30 in desparation and was wearing it by 5am. how can I get more milk into him when I'm already feeding on demand (when he's eating properly) or every 2 hours (whichever comes sooner) and he always indicates he's full after he does feed.

I'm so worried and upset which is probably not helping.


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Bells

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Wednesday, December 9th 2009, 9:48am

Hi Grace,

According to your ticker he's only 12 days old so these periods of unhappiness/not feeding have perhaps only happened a handful of times? I don't know if it sounds like a pattern as such but I can see why you're beside yourself and I wonder if the threat of being admitted to hospital is just more pressure on a new Mum who's already ripping her hair out!

It's great that the majority of time he goes on well and seems to be happy, that much suggests that you've certainly got the basics right. My gut feeling from reading your post (so only based on a few words and possibly not the entire picture) is that he's probably just on the upturn of re-gaining weight, he's feeding well for the majority of the time but perhaps has had a few days where he's not been that hungry or has had a tummy ache, been overtired, needed to poo or is just in a grump??

If your milk was a problem then it would be a problem all of the time and unless you're eating something or drinking something around those particular times that he's having one of these episodes of unhappiness then I can't see that your milk is causing any problems. If formula makes him throw up then rather than pressure you to get his weight up, your MW would be better off supporting you to help find the cause of this and to go through ways of getting you both through these periodical dips in his appetite.

When will you have him weighed again? Can I suggest that you give him a really good feed just before you have him weighed just to tip the scales in your favour. It actually sounds like it's just a phase and once you see the scales on the upturn you'll worry less and have more confidence to deal with the off days.





Grace

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Wednesday, December 9th 2009, 9:58am

Hi Bells, Thanks for the advice, today he's still not eating and is very sleepy not wanting to wake up but I am managing to express and "encourage" him to eat about 30/40 mls of bm from a bottle every couple of hours to avoid dehydration. He did this on Friday and I ended up taking him to the GP as an emergency and the GP said he was fine just tired and sent me home, he finally ate at about 1pm after not eating anything since 6am!

I know my milk can't be a problem as it's going everywhere at the moment I just have to think about him and I feel it let down and it starts to leak like crazy.

He's due to be weighed again on Thursday and unless he starts eating properly again there's no way even feeding him will make enough of a difference, my MW seems to be the only person worried as my GP and another MW weren't concerned but he has now lost 9.6% of his birth weight. I have the hv coming today (and Jensen won't wake up) and I'm going to talk to them about Gastro-oesophageal reflux which he seems to have all the symptoms of including the screaming and arching of the back, my DH was apparently the same as a baby couldn't tolerate formula and didn't regain his birth weight until he was almost 3 months old!!

It doesn't help I feel really guilty today as I put him down in his basket last night at about 1pm and he started to scream and I sat down figuring I'd give him 5/10 minutes to see if he would settle (as he sometimes does) and I was so tired I promptly fell asleep, I woke up hours later and he'd cried himself to sleep and I feel just awful, he's so tired this morning hence the reason he doesn't want to wake up and eat.


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Bells

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Wednesday, December 9th 2009, 10:03am

I'm just on my way out of the door but just HAD to say that a loss of 10% of birthweight is titally normal and expected as your baby is so waterlogged, full of meconium and swollen at birth. That's probably why your MW and GP aren't phazed by it!!





Grace

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Thursday, December 10th 2009, 4:03pm

Thanks Bells, I think they are worried because they are supposed to have stopped losing weight by this point. He has but on a tiny amount of weight since the last time he was weighed so they are going to weigh him again on Monday to see if it continues.

Can I ask another question? often he only feeds for about 5 minutes before coming off and signalling he's full, I thought they were supposed to feed for 10-15 minutes so is it normal to only feed for 5? I know my milk is pretty fast as I accidentally squirted him in the eye this morning just taking my bra down.


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Bells

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Thursday, December 10th 2009, 7:22pm

If your milk comes out fast in lots of jets, baby is sucking and swallowing well then 5 minutes may be all he needs. Would he go back on after a few minutes if you tried?

If not then I think it may be a good idea to put him back on that same breast the next time he feeds, just to make sure that he's getting the hind milk.





bubble

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Thursday, December 10th 2009, 9:54pm

Hi Grace

Sorry you've got this worry. I had loads of hassle from the HVs as well about baby bubble's poor weight gain. She also lost a good 10% after birth and another friend's baby didn't regain his birth weight until he was a month old so Jensen's in good company! I think this early on it's completely unfair for them to start stressing you out!

5 mins may well be enough - baby bubble has always been a quick feeder but like Bells said I had to keep trying to put her back on the same breast to ensure she got the hindmilk as this was part of our problem.

If he's put on some weight since then that's brillant. Hopefully that's the start of a good gain. Just feed feed and feed some more before he gets weighed next :smile:

Did they give you any advice about possible reflux?

x

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




Grace

Princess of the Universe

  • "Grace" started this thread
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Posts: 3,405

Reg: Jul 29th 2008

Location: Berkshire

Children: 1 beautiful little son conceived through ICSI and one equally beautiful little boy concieved naturally!

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Friday, December 11th 2009, 8:41am

Hi,

Sometimes he will go back on the breast and sometimes he just won't no matter how hard we try but he will sometimes take the other one instead and sometimes we have a running buffet for an hour where he keeps going back on for a minute here and a minute there until he falls asleep with it in his mouth (and usually a mouthfull of unswallowed milk which goes everywhere when he comes off).

I know my milk is a little forcefull (to say the least) as it starts to dribble the second his nose touches the end of it and I mean full force dribble, I can go through a breast pad and clothes in a couple of minutes (answered the door to the postman like that yesterday :snigger:). I sometimes wonder if it comes out a little too fast for his liking as he tends to mouth the nipple a lot and not attach like he's a bit gunshy and I have to try multiple positions until he finally latches on, then he doesn't to the little small sucks that they're supposed to do at the start he goes straight in with long slower sucks with a swallow between each one.

Sadly I didn't get any advice re reflux they didn't seem to know much about it so what I will probably do is wait until he has another off day and then go to the GP and get a prescription for baby gaviscon to see if it makes a difference. Cutting out lactose in my diet seems to have helped a little and I also keep him upright on my shoulder for at least 20 minutes after each feed which has helped with the spitting up.

I blame my husband because apparently he was exactly the same and also didn't regain his birthweight until he was a month old (and he only weighed at full term just over 6lb!)


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Natural BFP DS2 born Sept 11

bubble

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Tuesday, December 15th 2009, 1:33pm

Hi Grace

How are things? Was he weighed again yesterday?

x

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




Grace

Princess of the Universe

  • "Grace" started this thread
  • United Kingdom

Posts: 3,405

Reg: Jul 29th 2008

Location: Berkshire

Children: 1 beautiful little son conceived through ICSI and one equally beautiful little boy concieved naturally!

What's Up?
Oh god I've got Puppies!

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Tuesday, December 15th 2009, 1:57pm

Hi Bubble,



He was weighed yesterday and has put on 60gms since Thursday which is not a huge rise but is finally going in the right direction. I can't say I'm too surprised as since Saturday he's been eating like a horse, he's feeding at least every 2 hours and usually spends about 45 minutes eating and pausing, eating and pausing and often takes both boobies in the same sitting. Last night he was eating every hour, feeding for about 10 minutes before going back into his basket where he would grizzle for 10 minutes, sleep for 40 minutes then wake for more food. He's stuffing his face today about every hour and a half for about 10 mins each time. I'm exhausted but would much rather he was eating like this (so I know he's getting enough) then the way he was before, lord only knows what made the difference but it sure seems to have galvanised him into action. Maybe it's all the mince pies I've been eating :) I have mince pie flavoured breast milk. He also seems to be sucking the fat out of me as I am not back into my pre-pregnancy trousers but not even my maternity tops fit any more as my boobs seem to be getting larger and larger, if i fell over now i'd probably bounce back upright. Have another weigh in tomorrow when the health visitor is coming if that one still shows a rise then hopefully we'll go to weekly weigh ins.



He's still a little refluxy but not as bad as he was before we stopped the formula top ups and I stopped eating dairy products as it doesn't seem to cause him any discomfort any more, obviously he's lactose intolerant (25% of white male are lactose intolerant despite my being told by the Dr it was very unlikely that he was allergic to the lactose in his formula as it was very rare) I guess he can tolerate the lactose in my breastmilk providing I'm not topping it up by including it in my diet (apart from the odd bowl of ice cream).


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bubble

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Tuesday, December 15th 2009, 2:04pm

Mince pies - minus the cream - are clearly the way forward then! Sounds like you're both doing brilliantly - and as you say it's easier to be confident that they're getting enough when feeds are that frequent. MrsSmiff also saw vast improvements in her little man when she cut out dairy.

Hopefully you can move onto less frequent weigh ins soon and that will help in terms of seeing significant increases.

BTW I now have an image of you as one of those weeble things that you knock over and they roll/bounce back up again!!

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




pamelag088

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Tuesday, December 15th 2009, 11:21pm

Grace Im glad to hear your feeding is on well and also to read he has been sleeping in his basket, hope this means your getting a lot more rest despite the feeding, Sounds like he is cluster feeding with the frequent feedings and Im sure next weigh in you will see a big jump, Its such a worry wondering if they are getting enough.

Long may it continue with him feeding well

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Wednesday, December 16th 2009, 8:54pm

Great news about the weight gain Grace. That very frequent feeding pattern sounds about normal for a newborn so I'm sure you are getting right. Mince pie flavoured milk sounds like just the thing a growing baby needs!





mrs_smiff

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Thursday, December 17th 2009, 12:49pm

Blimey, I have only just seen this you poor sausage! What a worry these little babies cause us! I have gone through all this with Lochlan, minus the weight gain, as for some reason even though he was puking gallons of milk all over me he still gained vast amounts of weight. (I however lost it very quickly, which was all very nice :laugh: . Getting Lochlan diagnosed with reflux was my first big hurdle, and he wasn't properly diagnosed until he was about 2 months old, in spite of me being back and forth to the GP constantly. The second revelation for me was the connection with dairy. It seemed too much of a coincidence to me that if I had a glass of milk before bed, the following day would be a torrent of baby puke non stop. I suggested dairy intolerance to my GP when L was about 7 weeks old, and she basically said to me there was very little chance of this as he was breast fed. This didn't seem right to me, and I pursued it relentlessly. I think there is probably a red banner which comes up on my doctors records which says, 'Neurotic Mother, do not entertain her fantasies!!' So anyway, we got to about 5 months, and I had had just about enough so I cut all dairy out of my diet. With 48 hours all Lochlan's vomitting had stopped. Completely. So, I toddled back to the GP, they were still very sceptical but went along with it and referred us to peadiatric gastoenetrology, where they confirmed MY diagnosis and since then we have had the support and advice we needed. Mind you, it was only yesterday that we finally managed to get to see the dietician and got both our diets sorted.I am now on a calcium supplement as I have now been dairy free for over 2 months so I am getting a very minimum amount of calcium in my diet and Lochlan is still draining what I do have through breast feeding. Lochlan has some special formula to try, for adding to his food and giving the odd bottle when he goes to his grandparents, and we have lots of lovely recipes to try and get his calcium levels back up again.

It isn't necessarily Lactose intolerance which causes this though. Lochlan has been tested for this and it was negative, so it is just the proteins in cows milk which causes the problem, so I would try and push for lactose testing for your little one before you cut out all lactose as well. (That can be very restricting as it is in so many foods, and medicines too). It isn't easy being totally dairy free, as it means no chocolate, ice cream, cakes etc, although I now find that because Lochlan is breast feeding less now that he is on 3 solid meals a day, I can smuggle in plenty of cake when he isn't looking and it doesn't effect him :raspberry: )

Has your doctor accepted that your baby is effected by dairy? If not then I would suggest you keep a food diary over 3-4 days, then exclude dairy for 3 days and mark the difference in the amount your little one vomits. That way you have conclusive evidence and they can then get you referred to the gastro people. Don't let the health visitor or doctor talk you down from this though as you have seen yourself how badly your baby is effected by dairy. The difference when you realise what's causing all the trauma is incredible isn't it!!
Me 35,DH 36 (Severe Oligospermia.).
4th ICSI :BFP:
I have 4 lovely big kids
Thomas Derren (Thom) July 1990
Luke Benjamin August 1993
Harley John Oliver June 1997
Alexandria Aimee Jay (Alex) July 1998
Lochlan Cassius James April 2009 (4th attempt at ICSI)



Grace

Princess of the Universe

  • "Grace" started this thread
  • United Kingdom

Posts: 3,405

Reg: Jul 29th 2008

Location: Berkshire

Children: 1 beautiful little son conceived through ICSI and one equally beautiful little boy concieved naturally!

What's Up?
Oh god I've got Puppies!

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Sunday, December 20th 2009, 8:46am

Thanks for the advice Mrs Smiff, I will push for him to be tested as his father is slightly lactose intolerant (although he can eat ice cream and chocolate) and was also a refluxy baby, apparently he spent the first 3 months of his life projectile barfing because the Drs made his mum top him up with formula which, judging by his son's response to formula, he was probably allergic to. The difference since I've stopped the formula is amazing, we've had no screaming days (touch wood) he's shown little signs of abdominal discomfort (he sometimes sqeaks a bit when he's lying down which I think might be wind) and although he still barfs the amounts he's bringing back are much smaller and more in line with wind rather than actually being sick when before he could bring back 30 mls at a time. He is now feeding much more often he can sometimes ask to be fed 3 times in an hour as he likes it little and often but then he will sometimes go for 3 hours before being hungry again, personally I think he was starting to associate feeding with pain which is why he was becoming so difficult to feed because once we became breast only he started to show increased interest in eating again taking more and more at each feeding with less fuss afterwards (I used to have to force him to take a bottle as he didn't want to eat anything). I have replaced my normal milk with Soya milk which actually has more calcium than regular milk as they add it so I'm hoping this will keep up my levels (although it tasted AWFUL). As long as he continues to gain weight I can cope with anything (fatal last words).

He giggled in his sleep this morning, how cute is that! Can't wait until he actually does it intentionally while awake.




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