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  • "dizzyduck" started this thread

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Saturday, March 13th 2010, 6:10pm

How often and should it really hurt this much??

Hello
Don't get much chance to get on here anymore but really in need of some advice. DS is now 4 weeks old and have been bf exclusively apart from a couple of days waiting for milk to come in as it was late coming - I supplemented with a bit of formula after each feeding for a few days. He is gaining weight, we have lots of wet and pooy nappies etc, although I've been having some trouble with latching. I went to a breastfeeding group and got some really good help, but one of my nipples is incredibly painful now - the whole breast seems to throb even when I'm not feeding him. He is a VERY voracious sucker - gets little blister on lip after feeding - and I often miss the moment when his mouth is wide wdie open. I notices that on the underside of the nipple that really hurts there is almost a chunk missing, like there has been a blister and it's come off leaving a wide crack. I hadn't noticed it because it's on the actual nipple but the bottom side of it if you know what I mean. I have been putting breast milk on it and letting dry and also using lansinoh (on other nipple too as preventative measure) but still so so painful. I noticed that there was a little bit of greenish stuff in the breast pad as if it was weeping slightly. Does this mean I have an infection? Do I need to go to GP and should I keep DS off that side? I have been expressing from that side and feeding from the 'good' side as the pain is unbearable. What is the best thing to do? I got some nipple shields today - would they help in healing process? I don't want to infect DS if I have an infection.
I have had quite a few really low points where I have just wanted to give up but so want to keep going. There aren't any red bits on the 'bad' side and I don't feel unwell or have temperature so don't think it can be mastitis. Breast feels hard and lumpy esp around nipple and more so if I don't express. What's the best way to heal this up quickly?

Second query - how often should I be feeding? I have had such a lot of conflicting advice - mw said I have to feed him every 3 hours even if I have to wake him or he'll get dehydrated. He rarely wakes for a feed by himself after just 3 hours, more like 4 or more, but in eves he wants to feed almost constantly. Do I really need to wake him every 3 hours? Help!
dizzyduck
Me 42 DP 40
TTC 3yrs
IVF Oct 07 and Jan 08 - both poor response & converted to IUI - BFN
May 08, Aug 08 and Oct 08 natural :BFP: m/c at 6, ,5 and 9 weeks :sadface:
May 09 another shock natural :BFP: Perfect little boy born 12 feb 2010.

Bells

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Saturday, March 13th 2010, 6:32pm

It's a latch problem. I'm about 99.9% sure of that from your description.

You know that the mouth needs to be open wide, the nipple is sucked to the back of his throat and he uses his lower jaw to massage the area 'behind' the nipple. If you're not managing to get the the breast into his mouth while it's open at its widest then the nipple can't go to the back of his throat and he will be gnawing on your nipple with his lower jaw..... which explains the painful area underneath your nipple.

You really need to work hard on the latch. Do you use your own fingers to get the breast into his mouth or do you do it 'handsfree'?

Yes, nipple shields are the perfect solution for the time being. You'll be able to feed while protecting that painfull area. If you don't get on with them then carry on expressing as you are doing just to keep that breast ticking over. The last thing you need is mastitis on top of this!

I'd pop to see your GP and ask him to have a look at it to put your mind at rest and to rule out thrush. Have you got some Lansinoh ointment? If not then send someone out to the supermarket to get you some. It will help the area heal and you can feed with it on. Also, don't suffer... if you need to take some paracetamol then do!

Second query - how often should I be feeding? I have had such a lot of conflicting advice - mw said I have to feed him every 3 hours even if I have to wake him or he'll get dehydrated. He rarely wakes for a feed by himself after just 3 hours, more like 4 or more, but in eves he wants to feed almost constantly. Do I really need to wake him every 3 hours? Help!


From what you describe, he's obviously getting a great amount of milk from you despite the latch problems. That's pretty fantastic! If you were talking about a week old baby and breasts that are only a week into feeding then I could agree with your HV that it would be wise to make sure he was getting those regular feeds. As he's a month old, as your milk is obviously well on its way to being established and crucially, as he's cluster feeding at bedtime then I think you have a little more leeway. I wouldn't really let him go longer than 4 hours but I wouldn't be waking my sleeping baby 'if' he was alert, gaining weight, producing plenty of nappies and cluster feeding effectively every evening.





  • "dizzyduck" started this thread

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Saturday, March 13th 2010, 6:40pm

Thanks Bells! I suspect its the latch too -I find it hard to see what his lips are doing because the breast is in the way. The woman at the breastfeeding group said don't use fingers to offer breast but let him find it and just lift him towards it when mouth wide open. However, I'm not always quick enough!
Do you think I should carry on with this side (with shields if nec) even though there was a bit of green stuff in breast pad? I'll try to get to GP on Monday to get it checked out. It throbs so much I don't want to damage ot even more and prolong the healing process. I can't see any white bits in baby's mouth so not sure about thrush - is there any other way of telling?
dizzyduck
Me 42 DP 40
TTC 3yrs
IVF Oct 07 and Jan 08 - both poor response & converted to IUI - BFN
May 08, Aug 08 and Oct 08 natural :BFP: m/c at 6, ,5 and 9 weeks :sadface:
May 09 another shock natural :BFP: Perfect little boy born 12 feb 2010.

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Saturday, March 13th 2010, 7:00pm

Did the woman at the breastfeeding group explain why she prefers you not to use your fingers? I know that some breastfeeding counsellors discourage it but thus far nobody's been able to say why other than you 'may' damage your breast tissue if you squeeze it too hard (can't see it myself). If you have a large nipple and a small mouth, a dodgy latch and you can't feed off one side because of excruciating pain then I think you have reason to question the advice not to do something that may drastically improve things.

Using your finger and thumb or index and middle fingers to squish the breast (behind the nipple) and make it nice and flat for half a second isn't going to damage the breast tissue, it's tried and tested and would really help get as much breast as possible into his mouth.

I don't think that the green stuff would harm him in any way but your nipple does need chance to heal and it's pointless puttng yourself through agony for the sake of it. If you can tolerate it then I'd carry on feeding but don't make yourself miserable... you can express from that side for a few days if you need to.

Thrush during breastfeeding is often manifested by a throbbing or stabbing pain deep in the breast and extreme nipple tenderness. A crack or sore can be the catalyst for thrush and once you have it you can pass it to baby. Not all babies will show symptoms but if it's diagnosed then baby should be treated too. Not all doctors are clued up on breast thrush so it's one of those where you may need to read up on it, diagnose yourself and then find a decent health care professional to prescribe you the right drugs. It tends to get lumped together with just having painful boobs while breastfeeding but if it's not treated it can get really very painful and it's a real toughy to shift.





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Sunday, March 14th 2010, 8:15am

Hi there! Just wanted to say that i have had terrible latch problems with the right hand side. No weeping wound but lots of pain and open cracks. Several times i have had to stop feeding and only express from that side. Even with shaping my nipple with my fingers and trying other positions i just cannot get her to open her mouth wide enough on that side even tho we have perfect latch on the other side! But do persevere - now she is a little bigger at 9 weeks her mouth is starting to open wider on that side so i can see light at the end of the tunnel! X


me 38, DP 44, ttc since 2005
BFP May 07 - HB seen @ 8 wks but CRL only 7 weeks, m/c @ 9 wks
BFP Jan 08 -m/c @ 11 wks (D&C)
BFP Jun 08 - early loss
BFP Dec 08 - HB & CRL ok @ 8 wks, but sac too small, m/c @ 9 wks
BFP Apr 09 - Martha born 9th Jan 2010
BFP Feb 12 - Eliza born 13th Oct 2012

  • "dizzyduck" started this thread

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Sunday, March 14th 2010, 6:17pm

Thanks - I am going to try and use fingers as suggested. Jen - the other side is fine with me too, it's so weird they won't open wide enough on one side but do on the other. I tried a nipple shield today and it made it bearable - he didn't seem to mind it and was getting the milk. He has such a crushing set of gums though......
Will see how I go tomorrow about seeing GP - not sure how clued up they are. I might see if I can find anoher breastfeeding club to go to as well. Every day I seem to go through the whole range of emotions from 'this is getting better, I can do this' to 'that's it, I can't go on' and feeling really tearful (usually evening ormiddle of night). Really hoping to see that light at the end of the tunnel soon. Everyone tells you it will be hard but nothing really prepares you, does it? He is so so worth it and I just hope I manage to hang on in there until it becomes a breeze.
By the way, Martha is gorgeous!
dizzyduck
Me 42 DP 40
TTC 3yrs
IVF Oct 07 and Jan 08 - both poor response & converted to IUI - BFN
May 08, Aug 08 and Oct 08 natural :BFP: m/c at 6, ,5 and 9 weeks :sadface:
May 09 another shock natural :BFP: Perfect little boy born 12 feb 2010.

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Sunday, March 14th 2010, 6:46pm

Hey dd i still have those exact same thoughts on a daily basis! Some days i feel that all i think about is feeding and so don't get as much enjoyment out of playing with or watching her as i could. We are going to try a bit of mixed feeding a couple of evenings a week so that i can have a break. I can and do express but don't want the pressure of having to - don't need yet another thing for the to do list! Will let you know how that goes. X


me 38, DP 44, ttc since 2005
BFP May 07 - HB seen @ 8 wks but CRL only 7 weeks, m/c @ 9 wks
BFP Jan 08 -m/c @ 11 wks (D&C)
BFP Jun 08 - early loss
BFP Dec 08 - HB & CRL ok @ 8 wks, but sac too small, m/c @ 9 wks
BFP Apr 09 - Martha born 9th Jan 2010
BFP Feb 12 - Eliza born 13th Oct 2012

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Sunday, March 14th 2010, 9:50pm

Wow!

Dizzy, I've just come on to get some BF advice and I could have written your post!!! Word for word, you are describing my exact problems. Breast feeding is now so painful that I weep through each session. Dylan is 8 weeks and BF has never been easy for us. He doesn't latch on well and like you I find it really hard to catch him when he does a 'big open'. (He must be sick of hearing me say that... ''Come on Dylan, big open for Mummy...'') My DP is really frustrated with me, he thinks I should go to bottle feeding because I am in so much pain. Hand on heart, I would rather give birth again than have this pain. Both breasts throb, regardless of which I feed from. The pain is in my breast, arm pit and down my arm, it even goes to my wrist on some feeds. I am not exaggerating when I say it is agonising! Poor Dylan now seems more reluctant to latch on and I'm sure this is because I wince and tense everytime he tries to. I try not to swear or make any noises as he goes on and just end up silently crying until the pain dulls... so ridiculous!

I have a Drs appointment tomorrow too. I think I may have thrush as DP read a letter in Mother and Baby mag this month and the symptoms sounded so similar. I don't think it's mastitus as no hot/ red patches.

I really do not want to give up on BF, I feel such a failiure at it though. I think part of my trouble is that I feel I should suffer because I have something so wonderful in my life and never thought I would have a baby. I can't believe I deserve him so the pain makes me feel I have to take it in order to keep him... not sure if I'm explaining that right. These feelings mean I have put off going to the Drs for 2 weeks, I guess that's why the pain is now so bad. I've had lots of support from HV and BF counsellers but still struggle with the latching on side of things. Honestly, whoever said BF was natural is a liar! There are so many things to get right... bloody hard work!
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Monday, March 15th 2010, 5:28am

Sorry to hear things are so painful dilly. Hope the dr can help you. One of the many health visitors / midwives / bf support people i have asked suggested that i put my finger on martha's chin and gently pull down to help her open her mouth wider. This does work but unfortunately i don't have enough hands or space to do this, shape my nipple and shove her on all at the same time. Not sure if you have tried that but might be worth a go! X


me 38, DP 44, ttc since 2005
BFP May 07 - HB seen @ 8 wks but CRL only 7 weeks, m/c @ 9 wks
BFP Jan 08 -m/c @ 11 wks (D&C)
BFP Jun 08 - early loss
BFP Dec 08 - HB & CRL ok @ 8 wks, but sac too small, m/c @ 9 wks
BFP Apr 09 - Martha born 9th Jan 2010
BFP Feb 12 - Eliza born 13th Oct 2012

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Monday, March 15th 2010, 8:44am

Aw Dilly, I feel for you I had alot of trouble too, honestly before giving up try nipple shields they got me through some very sore cracked and bleeding nipples and helped me persevere I would have given up without them! Even if you get stuck using them, its still breastfeeding with that warm comforting feel for bubs (you can get ones with a gap so they can still smell you). Lots of people I know used them to get through a rough patch or help a nipple recover and give it a break. Their mouths grow so fast this phase, one way or the other will pass and it will come right! No one says how hard BF is do they, its def an art, and a trial if you get a super sucky baby.
IVF/ISCI Nov08 BFP Cody born 8/09
FET-Oct & Dec10 BFN
IVF/ICSIJun11 BFP

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Monday, March 15th 2010, 10:17am

Dilly, you poor poor thing!!

It doesn't sound 'normal', not at 8 weeks, it sounds as if there's something going on.

If you suspect it's thrush then it's imperitive that you get the right treatment. Thrush in the nipple or the baby's mouth can be cleared up with ointment, cream and gel which is applied religiously for several weeks. If the pain is deep within the breast (as yours sounds like it is) then the cream WILL NOT work (even though your doctor may try to convince you that it will) You need to have systemic treatment and as an example, the Canestan 'one' tablets that you take for vaginal thrush.... well I had to take ten of those, one every day for ten days.... after being fobbed off for months with creams.

If you think it's thrush then it won't go away and it won't get better on its own without the right drugs. You shouldn't be suffering like this.





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Monday, March 15th 2010, 11:43am

just another thought Dilly - is your nipple white at all? With my poorly latched right side i sometimes have a blanched nipple which causes throbbing pain deep into my boob. It is caused by the poor latch and because the blood isn;t flowing into the nipple so if i gently squeeze to get the blood flowing again the pain goes away.

let us know how you get on at the docs xx


me 38, DP 44, ttc since 2005
BFP May 07 - HB seen @ 8 wks but CRL only 7 weeks, m/c @ 9 wks
BFP Jan 08 -m/c @ 11 wks (D&C)
BFP Jun 08 - early loss
BFP Dec 08 - HB & CRL ok @ 8 wks, but sac too small, m/c @ 9 wks
BFP Apr 09 - Martha born 9th Jan 2010
BFP Feb 12 - Eliza born 13th Oct 2012

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Monday, March 15th 2010, 12:40pm

Thanks everyone for the advice. Will try the chin stoke- carefully bablancing the nipple squeezing and holding baby. And yes, the ends of my nipples are white.

Spoke to my HV this morning. She thinks it sounds like deep tissue thrush, I feel relieved that there is a name for it. She said I should pop in and see her before the Dr as she has a leaflet which details treatment, etc and I should show this to the Dr. She said I may have trouble getting tablets as many Drs refuse to recognise thrush can infect the tissue and also the anti-biotics are unlicensed so drs will be reluctant to prescribe and usually advise giving up breast feeding. She says I should prepare for a fight.

Honestly, if the Dr tells me to give up I'm not sure if I'll commit murder or suicide. I have not gone through the past 8 weeks to give up now... so frustrating!

I will update you later... or maybe make the national news for throttling a GP?!?!

Dizzyduck- how's things?
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Monday, March 15th 2010, 8:06pm

Hi dilly - so sorry you are having such an awful time - I totally understand your feelings about the pain and not thinking you'd ever have a baby - I feel the same. Hopeyou had some luck at the docs. I have made an appointment for Weds morning and am battling on with the one good side and expressingand using nipple shields on the painful one. Nipple shields do make it bearable although they seem a bit tricky to use - I could only find mothercare ones, does anyone know of a good brand that might be better?
Really hoping my milk supply keeps going - the sore bit does alook a bit better but often still have pain in breast, not as bad as it was and not constant though, just after feeding. Nipple v tender and at times looks a bit white but the other nipple looks OK (if a bit bent to the side!). This eve he has wanted to feed and screamed when I stopped almost constantly since about 3 this afternoon. Just grabbed a couiple of mins on herre while my partner has him - this is the bit I find hardest. I don't want my remaining OK side to end up out of action as well. I'm going back to breastfeeding club on Weds afternoon and going to a different one on Friday. Also thinking about the one bottle of formula in eve as Jensqui has described. It might just keep my sanity - it does feel like feeding is all there is at times. During the night and in the mornings he is fine but late afternoon and all evening through to about 11pm he just has a feeding frenzy and never seems to have had enough even when I'm so so sore. Do you think there isn't ewnough milk left in the evenings?
dizzyduck
Me 42 DP 40
TTC 3yrs
IVF Oct 07 and Jan 08 - both poor response & converted to IUI - BFN
May 08, Aug 08 and Oct 08 natural :BFP: m/c at 6, ,5 and 9 weeks :sadface:
May 09 another shock natural :BFP: Perfect little boy born 12 feb 2010.

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Monday, March 15th 2010, 8:44pm

Dizzyduck sorry you have been so sore. I was lucky enough to not have nipple problems but gave up for other reasons.

His feeding frenzy in the evening is clusterfeeding and is normal, Probably going through a growth spurt and so upping your supply. BF is tiring and so hard work without all the problems you have experienced so wanted to say well done for carrying on through the pain, Your amazing

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Monday, March 15th 2010, 9:09pm

Hi dd, good to hear that the nipple shields are working. If you can get the latch to be better i am sure it will work out for you. Martha also cluster feeds in the evening. It isn't a growth spurt with her. I do think it is what enables her to sleep so well at night tho - she has a full tank! Does your little one have a good sleep at night too? I have found that even her having a bottle of ebm early eve gives me a break. She takes 6oz in about 20 mins yet would feed at the breast for 40mins at that time. Going to try formula tomorrow eve.


me 38, DP 44, ttc since 2005
BFP May 07 - HB seen @ 8 wks but CRL only 7 weeks, m/c @ 9 wks
BFP Jan 08 -m/c @ 11 wks (D&C)
BFP Jun 08 - early loss
BFP Dec 08 - HB & CRL ok @ 8 wks, but sac too small, m/c @ 9 wks
BFP Apr 09 - Martha born 9th Jan 2010
BFP Feb 12 - Eliza born 13th Oct 2012

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Monday, March 15th 2010, 10:26pm

Thanks everyone for the advice. Will try the chin stoke- carefully bablancing the nipple squeezing and holding baby. And yes, the ends of my nipples are white.

Spoke to my HV this morning. She thinks it sounds like deep tissue thrush, I feel relieved that there is a name for it. She said I should pop in and see her before the Dr as she has a leaflet which details treatment, etc and I should show this to the Dr. She said I may have trouble getting tablets as many Drs refuse to recognise thrush can infect the tissue and also the anti-biotics are unlicensed so drs will be reluctant to prescribe and usually advise giving up breast feeding. She says I should prepare for a fight.

Honestly, if the Dr tells me to give up I'm not sure if I'll commit murder or suicide. I have not gone through the past 8 weeks to give up now... so frustrating!

I will update you later... or maybe make the national news for throttling a GP?!?!

Dizzyduck- how's things?


Yes, doctors aren't happy to prescribe the correct treatment so you MUST fight your corner. The drugs are antifungal not antibiotics and no they may not be licenced but they can still prescribe them to you. If you doctor won't then tell him that you'll have to find one that will.

This is the information you need.......

Oh... and blanched nipples that will not refill on their own almost immediately are an indicator of thrush.
Bells has attached the following file:





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Tuesday, March 16th 2010, 7:05am

Well, I got the drugs I wanted!

Went in all prepared for a fight, armed with the leaflet the HV gave me (same as the one Bells linked to- THANKS BELLS!) The Dr was reluctant, he explained that as the drug was not licensed he would be liable personally should anything go wrong, I understood his concerns but pointed out that the WHO recognises the use of the drug. He took a bit of persauding and told me he had never prescribed it before. He wanted to record on my notes that I understood the 'risks' of taking the medication but I told him he couldn't write that as I did not understand the risks at all- there was no detail of this! He said that it was unlikely there were any so I told him he should have no reason not to prescribe then! Looking at the leaflet I had it seemed the only barrier to licensing was cost rather than health issues. It seemed like he wouldn't go through with it so I pointed out that I had the Swine Flu jab on Dr recommendation and that wasn't tested in pregnant women but that didn't stop health professionals pushing it so what was the difference? That seemed to sway him. (Cue smug feeling from me!) He told me the dose seemed very high so has prescribed me 100mg a day to start, for 10 days. I told him I'd be back if it didn't work.

Started taking the tablets last night and hopefully will see a difference in the next couple of days. I'm going to head back to breastfeeding group once the pain subsides and work on the latch again. I'm having to express from the left breast this morning as pain so bad when trying to feed. Dylan fed from the right and has gone back to sleep, I'm downstairs having just expressed and feeling like my chest is on fire. I really hope things get better soon!

DD- Hope you get on ok on Weds.
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Tuesday, March 16th 2010, 3:39pm

Having a dreadful day today and already feeling like giving up after 4 hours of non-stop crying. All he wants to do is feed all the time - literally. I don't know if it's comfort sucking as if I stop he shoves his hand in or sucks his sleeve really manically. I am at my wits end - this usually starts later in the day. I don't know what to do - is he not getting enough to eat? My breasts are so sore from the constant feeding even with nipple shield on one side - what is going on? He is having wet nappies but just screams all the time and is only stopped by sticking him on the boob. I don't know whether to try him with a bottle of formula now just to stop the crying - if he needs more to eat it doesn't seem like he is getting it from me because even after an hour or more, if I take him off he screams again. help
dizzyduck
Me 42 DP 40
TTC 3yrs
IVF Oct 07 and Jan 08 - both poor response & converted to IUI - BFN
May 08, Aug 08 and Oct 08 natural :BFP: m/c at 6, ,5 and 9 weeks :sadface:
May 09 another shock natural :BFP: Perfect little boy born 12 feb 2010.

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Tuesday, March 16th 2010, 3:47pm

Oh DD, I've just read through this. What a tough time you're having. It's tomorrow you're seeing the doctor isn't it? Everything crossed that will sort it out for you.

Have you tried a dummy? If he's happy to suck on your hand it could very well he just wants the comfort of sucking rather than needing food? If he's been feeding constantly it's probably not food he's after now.

x

ttc since July 06. 8 cycles of clomid. BFP on cycle 5 (Dec 07) ended in m/c at 9.5 weeks. Second BFP on cycle 8 (May 08)




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Tuesday, March 16th 2010, 4:34pm

Oh DD I am so sorry you are having such a tough time of it. :sadface:

I was very fortunate to not have suffered with sore nipples but my DD did feed/want to be on my boob most of the time and it was worse when she had growth spurts. There where times when I just wanted five minutes to do things and she'd just cry. We got dummies which she spat out after a few sucks but they did stay in if DH put his finger lightly on it, she would soon settle and fall asleep giving me a bit of a break.

I really hope things get easier for you soon.

xxx


Angel baby April 07, Angel baby December 07, DD1 August 09, DD2 March 11, DD3 October 13

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Tuesday, March 16th 2010, 4:49pm

So sorry to hear this DD. Only wish I had the answers. xxx
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Tuesday, March 16th 2010, 5:20pm

Hi DD

So sorry to hear your having a tough day [zx127] . Breastfeeding is really tough in the early days but it does get better I promise. Do you think DS is genuinely hungry? I only say this because in the early days I used to mistake both tirdness and wind for hunger. I would feed and feed convinced that they were hungry but in hindsight I now wonder if they just needed a good old burp and a nice kip! Baby's do suck their hands, sleeves and anything else they can get in their chops and so it's not necessarily hunger all the time. A dummy might be worth a try just in the interim.

x


3rd IUI - 08/08/08 - tested 22/08/08 BFP :D
Scan 09/09/08 - 2 [zx076] [zx076] TWINS!
2 beautiful boys born 16/04/09

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Tuesday, March 16th 2010, 7:40pm

He's finally settled after a wheel round the block in the pushchair followed by all the milk I expressed this morning plus 20 mins on my 'good' side. I am absolutely shattered and now DP is home I'm going to eat then go to bed for a few hours - he'll have to give a bottle of formula as I've used the expressed stuff. I just have to get some sleep - DP is going away for 2 days at the end of the week and I'm absolutely dreading it - by the time he gets home in the evening I sp desperately need a break - I don't know how single mums cope. I'll feed again around 11 or midnight - nights (touch wood!) are usually OK - he just feeds, drifts off and happily goes back in moses basket, waking about 3 or 4 and then again about 6 or 7.
I'll have him with me at docs in morning so will ask about the constant feeding and get her to weigh him to make sure he is gaining weight still. Not sure about the thrush, I've read the leaflet Bells posted and I still don't know. On my 'good' side, the nipple isn't white or blanched and it isn't hurting like the other one - just feels a bit sore from having been used so much today. If it was thrush, would both nipples be suffering? Also the pain is not unbearable just very uncomfortable at the moment and there is the sore bit on the underside of the nipple - the whole breast feels kind of bruised but no red bits or hard bits.
Indie - I don't know if he is hungry or not when he cries like that. I change him, feed him, burp him (to his indignation at being interrupted from his food), rock him, cuddle him - nothing seems to work and I suspect he only stops when he's on the boob because his mouth's full! he does get terrible wind - farts like a train and when he does burp it sounds really painful.
I trierd a dummy today and he semed eager to start with but then lost interest when it was clear there was nothing coming out. I offered it again and he spat it out after a couple of sucks and shoved his fist back in his mouth again. Oh well - lets hope tomorrow is better. I have the breastfeeding group again later in the day so will see how that goes and what the doc says in the morning - really hope its someone who knows about breastfeeding!
Thanks for all advice and sympathy - I so don't want to give up but it does get so hard when you're at a low ebb.
dizzyduck
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Tuesday, March 16th 2010, 8:07pm

Ohhh Dizzy I'm sure we have all been there at some stage in fact all the BF mums I know have been there but it really doesn't last forever. I can't comment on the thrush etc as I have no experience. But what I can tell you is I felt exactly the same as you do, I spent the first 6 weeks in tears and wincing every time I had to latch them on. Infact I totally dreaded the second they cried and just couldn't believe they needed feeding AGAIN! I definatley had a latching problem and went along to as many groups as I could and then when they were 6 weeks it got easier and easier and so hang on in there hun! x


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Tuesday, March 16th 2010, 8:15pm

Dizzy, I'm so sorry you are having such a tough time. The early days are absolutely exhausting.

I had thrush last year, and it mostly affected my right breast, I had hardly any pain/symptoms in my left breast.

A bit like has been said, L was a bit unenthusiastic with the dummy, but lightly holding it in helped, and she'd suck it, and it did give a bit of respite!

Have you tried him in a sling? It doesn't work for everyone, but in the early days, H and L could be soothed better in that, than other ways. They could stay in there when they'd nodded off, and I had my hands free!

I really hope your GP is supportive tomorrow, and that tomorrow is a better day for you xxx

(And Dilly, really glad to hear you got the right treatment, it can be a battle, as has been said! Hope it soon starts working for you. Once I got the correct treatment/dose, it did clear up my thrush, so hopefully you will soon start feeling better) xxx



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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "compley" (Mar 16th 2010, 8:23pm)


pamelag088

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Tuesday, March 16th 2010, 8:20pm

Dizzy hi

I have an entire thread on whats happened to you today. How long is he going between naps, If its anything like what happened to me it will probably be overtiredness. TJ acted just like he was starving but was atually tired, He sreamed for hours and hours and I tried to feed and feed thiking he was hungry and he got madder and madder and I got more and more upset.

I totally understand what your going through excpet I didnt have the pain you have and so cannot imagine how much worse that makes it.

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Wednesday, March 17th 2010, 10:16am

DD- our babies sound so similar! I feel reassured that Dylan is not the only one who feeds like this. Even the fact they are both generally good at night and wake at the same times for feeds... bizarre!

My thrush started in one breast with the symptoms you describe, I was in pain for about 2 weeks and then last week pain changed to agony, and in both breasts. I'm glad you are off to the Drs today as you could catch it early.I'm just a stubborn fool who refused to admit I had a problem.

Does LO have white patches in his mouth?

Dylan is not a big fan of the dummy. I put it in to settle him and gently tap it with my index finger to keep it in. It works for a few mins, usually enough to settle him, then spits it out. Often he refuses it comletely so I don't force the issue.

Good luck for today. x
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Wednesday, March 17th 2010, 11:30am

Hi,

I had exactly the same problem with J when he was about 8 weeks. Through the day he would be fine but come 5pm he would want to feed constantly and would chafe my nipples something horrible if I took him off he screamed like he was being murdered. I think it's a comfort thing, after about 2 weeks he started doing it less and now has completely stopped doing it, I found that he would suck my finger rather than a dummy and that gave my nips a break.


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Wednesday, March 17th 2010, 4:28pm

Ooh - I'm going to try him with my finger - that sounds like a good idea!
Went to doc today after waking in night in agony with a big lump in my very solid boob - it was relieved slightly by expressing but v painful. Probably because I didn't feed him at all from 6 til midnight and I was full (he had some formula but didn't actually want much of it according to DP who had him for eve while I got some sleep). Doc says it looks like a blocked milk duct which is being made more painful by my lack of feeding and could be being inflamed by the nipple shield, which I am not getting on well with. Because of the open crack on my nipple, she thinks it is probably infected and may already be developing into mastitis. Therefore she has given me antibiotics and told me to come back next week. I did ask her about thrush but she seemed fairly sure that it wasn't that - we'll see if the antibiotics have an effect. I have to keep feeding from the good side and once a day from the bad side, expressing milk regularly from that side, preferably by hand - until nipple is healed enough.
Went to breastfeediing club this pm and they said make really sure I empty the breast regularly or the pain will get worse. We'll see how it goes. They also said try to brave it without nipple shield, just change positiion as baby's mouth will massage the breast better than pumping will and that will help too. Might grit my teeth and have a go - but because of my latch problem on that side I might wait until the nipple has had a chance to recover a bit first.
Have had a much better day today with 1 bout of crying that lasted 1/2 an hour and I let him cry but kept talking to him and eventually he stopped. Have managed to express lots of milk so that should satisfy him when he wakes up! Dilly - our babies do sound really similar! Hope you are starting to feel a bit better now you are getting treatment. LO doesn't have white patches in mouth but I'll keep an eye out in case this turns out to be thrush after all.
Watch this space....
dizzyduck
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Sunday, March 21st 2010, 8:42pm

ouch blocked ducts are sore, I also had a mastitis and thrush scare with it but emptying the breast as often as you can really helps. I also got lumpy and sore then started getting a chill, pumped my boob dry and overnight it got better so ab agree sounds like you need to clear them out, and keep feeding regularly t clear the duct. I think blocked ducts only last a few days usually if you can stand feeding through them to get it all moving again. God I remember going through this and so feel for you!! I used antibiotic cream and anti fungal as I had very mild thrush and it did clear in a few days, but a yuck few days :-(

Sorry to hear the nipple shields arent working well, they do come in different sizes so it may be you have an incorrect size? The brand I used was Medela. They came in several sizes (which would help you get an easy fit that works and is quick to get on and off) they also come in a model which has no lip/edge on one section so that where the babies nose is it can be against your skin - which means they can smell and nuzzle you still.

So hope this passes quickly for you hun xx
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Tuesday, March 23rd 2010, 1:32pm

Thanks Deirdre - I went and got the medela ones and they are definitely better - it has now healed up enough to brave going 'shieldless'! Hopefully things are on the mend - the other side is totally fine now so just need to make sure latch is spot on now the bad side seems to be recovering. thanks everyone for support and advice, I'm hoping we have finally turned a corner with the feeding now.
I also bought some tommee tippee cooling gel pads which are supposed to speed up the healing process as well as soothe sore nipples - they worked quite well - worth a try if you are in pain.
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Tuesday, March 23rd 2010, 8:20pm

Really good to hear that things are starting to improve for you xxx



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Thursday, March 25th 2010, 8:57pm

Yay, good for you already trying going shieldless. People underestimate how brave you have to be to go through this, to keep going and get off shields and things after yourve experienced pain and such sore boobs/nipples. So many give up, be very very proud of yourself. I kept the shields round for a while as a back up and to give them a break now and then as my nip condition did see-saw a bit for a while feeling better some days than others, it really helped me stick with it.
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Thursday, April 1st 2010, 8:08am

Just wanted to give a quick update- and thank you all for your help and support... especially Bells and the leaflet.

I took the tablets for 10 days... and what a difference! I am no longer in agony as Dylan latches on and after feeding for at least an hour. Such relief! I am actually starting to enjoy BF after 10 weeks! Dylan seems to have a better latch and I understand not to put up with the pain and keep re-latching him if it's not right. I am still using Daktarin on my nipples to try and clear the Thrush from Ddylan's mouth. It has to be applied on my nipples as not suitable for topical treatment in babies under 4 months due to choking hazard.

My nipples are still a paler colour than the rest of my breast but I think this is a consequence of the Thrush.

Ladies, if you are experiencing Thrush like symptoms... please do not leave it like I did, print of the leaflet and go speak to your GP. Just be prepared to make a strong case for treatment!

Dilly xxx
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Thursday, April 1st 2010, 2:27pm

Great news Dilly! So glad it has got better for you. Me too! My mastitis has gone and breastfeeding is now fine! If you had told me it would improve this much when I was in the depths of despair and about to give up, I never would have believed it! (well - people did tell me and I didn't believe them!!) I am so so glad I persevered and thanks too for all the support and encouragement - and the great advice. He is gaining weight well and now feeds for far less time in one go as he is latched on properly and getting the milk easily. Dilly - like you, i am making sure I detach him if it's hurting and latch on again until we get it right. I don't want to go through that again! No doubt I will now find something else to get all worried about......
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Thursday, April 1st 2010, 2:43pm

Oh ladies that's so fantastic!!!

It's so hard to figure out what the problems are and so difficult to get someone to help you. You really do have to self diagnose and push for the advice, suuport and treatments you need ... which is so hard when you're at your lowest ebb.

Congratulations both of you on turning the corner, such a relief!!!





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Thursday, April 1st 2010, 7:52pm

Really great to hear you are both feeling better ladies, and that bfing is becoming a more relaxed and enjoyable experience for you xxx



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