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csam

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Sunday, June 27th 2010, 7:50pm

Routine's with twins and general questions! - help please!

Hi

I have 7 week old B/G twins.My DS is generally unsettled most of the time (I really don't know why??),he likes to be held,but then 'fights' that also.My DD is generally more settled,but hasn't been her usual self the last few day's (perhaps it's the heat??).There are sometimes not enough hands to hold 2 babies and see to my 2 year old also.



They were 5 weeks early,so I'm not sure that makes a difference to their 'behaviour'.



I know it's to early for routines,but they are fed on demand (not normally before 3hrs though),so feed times are different every day.I have help at feed times but sometimes we are in a real pickle if they feed as DH needs to leave/get ready for work or my DD1 wakes and I need to get her breakfast etc.



With trying to keep on top of housework,cooking,shopping and looking after a lively 2yr old,there are just not enough hours in my sleep deprived day! No one seems to be getting any quality time.

Some one loaned me a Gina Ford book for twins,but whilst I like routines (DD always had/has one),I can't see it working for us at all.DD1 routine worked well because she set it herself really.



Sorry for the ramble but how and when does it get easier??!!! they are still not really at an age that they can be distracted.I considered a dummy for DS,would that help do you think? What routine's could I try? and how can I settle them better?



Hoping someone can help!



Thanks

xxxxx

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "csam" (Jun 27th 2010, 7:52pm)


GemH

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Sunday, June 27th 2010, 8:25pm

Hi Hun

I cant help with the twin aspect but I was also anti dummies and G could be very hard to settle he sounds like ur ds, he wanted to be held then pushed against it whilst you did. I gave in with the dummy and Im glad I did, I found it help him to settle and still does if hes particularly restless (weaning him off it atm). x





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Sunday, June 27th 2010, 8:51pm

Hi hon

I can totally relate to what you say! We also have more trouble settling our ds. We gave inbro the dummy a couple of weeks ago and have found it very useful!! Our twins are feeding every 4 hours and we have started sone of the suggestions from the gina ford book. Bathtime followed by a feed at 6 means we have an evening at least. I couldn't get my head around most of the very specific instructions in the book bur have taken some of the ideas on board. Ours were also prem(born @34 weeks).
It is very hard work but I have started to accept that 1 twin may have to wait sometimes and unfortunately that means crying. As you say with only one pair of hands it's not easy!
I'll be interested to see what suggestions others can offer!
:hugs: i'm sure it'll get easier.

My Diary - Bry and the Flumps!


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csam

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Monday, June 28th 2010, 7:07pm

Hi Gem

Congrats on your Pg! Thanks for your reply.I think we will have to give Ds a dummy,it may save my sanity and cheer him up a little! I'm not especially anti or pro dummies,each babies needs are different aren't they,DD1 didn't need one.I suppose I'm worried we'll be up half the night putting it back in,what's your experience? Did you find any particular dummy better ?



:hi: Bry,glad to hear I'm not alone! I know from having a singleton that things do get easier,I'm sure it's the same for twins,I just can't see it at the moment! you are doing a great job 4 hourly feeding.Do they not cry inbetween feeds? What times do you feed? Sorry for all the Q's.What happens if say they wake at 2am and it hasn't been 4 hours (or does that not happen?),or say they wake at 4am but they are not due until 6am,do you feed at 4am and then 6am to get back on track? Hope that make sense. I don't think either of mine are especially hungry babies,I just think they don't know what to do inbetween feeds and Ds can shout very loud! giving the impression he hasn't been fed all day!



There is no sense or order to my day and it makes me anxious! You say about having an evening but we find that we are either holding one or both of ours and therefore having our tea in shifts,do yours settle ok in the evening?



Better dash,DD2 crying.Hope you have a good evening! (and night!)



C

xxxxxx

Indiechick

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Monday, June 28th 2010, 8:59pm

Ohhhh Csam, I am so with you missus!

Firstly and most importantly you have to remember that this is just a stage that they are going through, of course it will get better, the challenges change but it definatley does get better. In a sane mind that would be so easy to see but when you are sleep deprived and feeling a little crazy it's not so easy eh!

Could there be any chance that DS has Colic? My DS1 did similar stuff and used to throw himself around when we were holding him and so I tried a million different solutions but in the end he just grew out of it.

As for routines, I am a staunch believer in our routine. In general the boys go to sleep at the same time for naps during the day and night time and I have personally found that this has at least allowed me to have an 1 and a half + to myself a day.

To begin with I followed a book by an Aussie called Tizzie Hall, the book is called Save Our Sleep and I lived and breathed it. We put it in to action around 7 weeks and it took us a good three weeks to get it perfect but we got there in the end. Both boys could then self settle and would go to sleep at the right times (just don't ask me how to get them throgh the night!!!) I now go along the lines of the Baby Whisperer. I feel it was imperative to get them in to the same routine cos otherwise one would just go to sleep as the other woke up and I couldn't even manage a cuppa!

As for feeds, I gradually dragged mine out. The boys were still on three hourly feeds until 8 or 9 weeks and then I dragged it out 5 mins at a time over a day or two , would it help to gradually increase the amout of milk as you did this?

At the end of the day twins are the greatest joy but boy are they hard work! You do only have one pair of hands and so at some points one or the other may have to cry and unfortunatly that is the way it is but it is an important lesson to learn, through out the rest of their lives they are going to have to wait for you, they have to share you and so they may as well get used to it now!

I can honestly say that you are getting there, and it really won't be long till you'll look back and thing 'how the heck did I do that'. For me the total turning point was 12 weeks, that may seem like an eternity away for you right now but in comparision to their life it really is only a brief period I promise!

Hang on in there xxx


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Monday, June 28th 2010, 10:10pm

Superquick reply as mum is holding one twin at the mo and wants to go to bed, so excuse the lack of formality.

My twins weren't prem but I have a 3 yr old so totally empathise.

My measures are to sling the grouchy baby and swaddle both after feeds to get more sleep out of them. Gripe water has been really helpful, from 4 weeks.

Recently started to express breastmilk and now have increased my supply to pump off 6 oz a day which I give 3 oz each just before the last breastfeed before bedtime. They went from waking every two hours to, over a course of about 3 weeks, to waking every 3 to 4 hours - that bit extra sleep makes all the difference.

Must fly... Good luck!

R x







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csam

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Tuesday, June 29th 2010, 12:48pm

Hey Indie :smile:

That book looks good (just looked on Amazon),might buy that.I found it fairly easy getting Dd1 in a routine,as I said i just followed her lead.But it's 3 against 1 at the moment and I'm losing! we are still sticking to Dd1's routine so I need to try and get the twins to fit in.



I wondered about the colic.....Ds is very hard to feed (in fact my mum feeds him in the day usually as I'm a bit scared,lol!),he's very windy,and in the eve and at night esp he's awful.You'd think we were strangling him,he squeal's like a piglet and thrashes and moans etc. 9 times out of 10 he wakes up first for a feed in the night and then doesn't really want the feed and it's a real struggle getting him to feed.



I'm wondering if I should stick to a strict 4 hour feeding schedule? (what do I do inbetween feeds to save my sanity??!!),I BF DD1 on demand and have no real clue about bottle feeding.



Indie,I think you are right about 12 weeks being the turning point,it was with DD1,then it got easier and easier.



Roxy,Hi.Hope you are all well.Hopefully someone is lending me a sling,I think it could be useful! I might try the gripe water too,thanks .



Any other twin mum's have any routine's they can share,particularly feeding schedules? How many times a day etc? DD2 is still a bit tiddly,just over 7lb.Ds is nearer 9lb I should think.

Thanks,have to dash again,both crying!! arrghh



c

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Tuesday, June 29th 2010, 1:00pm

Just wanted to say I PROMISE it gets a lot easier!!!
Looking back, I'm not sure how we did it. But now (the girls are 5 months) things are much easier because we have a routine. Well, I think the girls have a routine and we've changed our lives around to adapt to them. But they nap well, sleep 8-9 hours straight at night, and feed very quickly. They can also entertain themselves on play gyms etc.

Our girls fed pretty much 3 hourly, and still are now really. We ended up throwing quite a bit of milk away for the first few months because they would sometimes drink all of what we gave them, other times just a fraction. But they never got too unhappy because their next feed was never too far away. And this covered them having growth spurts at different times to each other too. (If i was just feeding one baby, I guess I would have spaced the feeding out a little more).

Hope that helps!
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Tuesday, June 29th 2010, 4:07pm

Hi

It definitely sounds like colic to me! That's exactly how Henry was. he is a lot better since starting on infacol and using dr browns bottle (may be worth a try...) In answer to your questions... We feed them at 2, 6 and 10 throughout the day and night. Generally they don't wake up earlier but if they do we keep them distracted for as long as poss and try to stay as close as we can to the times. We are trying to stretch out the 2am feed so see if they'll sleep on. They made it to 3 once but not since! When we were feeding 3 hourly they were having to be woken up so it made sense to go to 4 hours. Are yours on special milk? Ours have a prescription diet for prem babies and I guess this may make them more full? How much do they take generally? Ours have about 120mls on average, although sometimes as much as 180! (very rarely) We make one bottle to 160 and the other to 200 just in case we need extra...

Taking them for a walk after feeding generally settles them and bathing them in the evening wroks a treat usually. Having a routine isn't for everyone but it is keeping me sane! I am getting about 2 hours to do stuff between feeds...

I have to say that it's still hit and miss and we have had some awful nights when sleep just isn't an option. generally tho it seems to be working and for me I have to rty to keep to a routine so I know ehere I am!... :hugs:

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Tuesday, June 29th 2010, 4:42pm

Hi
from memory - and it seems a long time ago now - the first 3 months were v tough.
The only thing that helps is drawing up list of stuff - cleaning, cooking , etc and outsourcing as much as possible. Even with perfectly behaved twins that aare in a routine - one is bound to catch a cold, start to teeth etc - plus somedays they drink more than others
Get someone in to help out and ensure you get a bit of sleep.....
DAD to twins

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Tuesday, June 29th 2010, 4:47pm

:pullhair: I'm so glad I found this thread. My twins were born at 32+5 and we were allowed to take them home after only 13 days in the Neonatal unit. Was feeding them with EBM and formula but found that once i was home from hospital, my milk supply dwindled (possibly due to some medication i'm on) so they're now on formula feeds. They're now just under 8 weeks old and just as I thought I was getting somewhere with a routine, everythings gone t'pot. One twin has started to refuse anymore feed after about 1 ounce, then consequently screams to be fed again an hour later. Have started her on infacol as she was showing some signs of colic that i'd read about in a leaflet, going all stiff, screaming like a banshee and displaying all sorts of strange positions, think I will see if Cirque Du Soleil need an extra contortionist!!! I had them on 4 - 4.5 hourly bottles, but now it could be absolutely anything up to an hour between demands for feeds. Is there away to make them feed for longer? they were doing so well and now twin 2 has also started being funny about feeding. Any suggestions are much appreciated. x
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Tuesday, June 29th 2010, 9:12pm

and using dr browns bottle (may be worth a try...)


We use these, and the girls never had colic. I don't know if it was because of the bottles or not, but it might be worth a try as Bry says.

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Wednesday, June 30th 2010, 1:17pm

I'm not a twinnie Mummy but I swore by infacol and the tommee tippee bottles. I know with infacol its got to be in their system. With the bottles (which I found didn't have instructions) the little vent thingy lets the air in so O doesn't take much in.

Also could they be having a bit of a growth spurt. I know that O sometimes feeds little but often when she's growing. Even now sometimes she goes down (last week she would only take 5 oz) and today she's back to 7oz!

:hugs:






Our miracle was born on 25.02.2010!!



csam

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Monday, July 5th 2010, 4:33pm

Thanks all for your replies



Bry,we were trying the 2,6,10 feed times also,it doesn't always work TBH because we can't 'control' the night feed.Mine are on normal milk and DD2 has about 90ml and Ds about 120ml.He is still awful with his feeds,it's horrible for him and us :bawl: We've tried infacol and Dr Brown bottles and Tommee Tippee bottles.I just don't know what else to do,different milk??? Perhaps it's a phase.He can have 10ml do 3 burps and still seem to be in pain.



Re routines,I think I'm going to have to ride it out a bit longer until they become a bit more predicatable with sleeping/feeding etc and are happier to play on their mat. DD1 had a BF at about 7pm and then was settled for the eve,this wasn't until about 3 months so hopefully the twins will be the same with their timings!We will have to muddle through until then. I just really like routine and perhaps I am being a bit impatient!



Hyacinth,how are things? any better :cuddle are the feed times longer now,perhaps they were having a growth spurt.We try distracting ours if they get grouchy but we know they are not really wanting a feed.It is hard though,we try giving them a bath(although that doesn't happen often if I'm honest!),also we have one of those swing chairs or generally just singing etc! Or you could try a sling? let us know how you're getting on.



xxxxxxxxx

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Monday, July 5th 2010, 5:39pm

Hi
just to let you know it turns out henry has reflux which is often confused with colic. We took him to the docs and ge is now on gaviscon which is helping a lot... May be worth taking your ds to the docs?

bigkiss

My Diary - Bry and the Flumps!


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csam

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Monday, July 5th 2010, 7:20pm

Thanks Bry,hope you are all getting on ok.Glad little Henry is better. I was reading up about Silent reflux the other night (Ds isn't really a sicky baby,hence why I thought the silent bit).



I just really feel something isn't right.I'm seeing the H/V tomorrow so will ask her.How did your Dr diagnose Henry's reflux? Just by asking questions or did he do examinations etc?



take care



xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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Tuesday, July 6th 2010, 10:02am

Hi again

gp just asked us how he was and worked it out from his symptoms. He did a brief examination. Hope your hv can offer some help. :hugs:

My Diary - Bry and the Flumps!


1st IVF March 09 :BFP: mm/c at 9 weeks :bawl:
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csam

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Tuesday, July 6th 2010, 1:55pm

Thanks Bry,H/V said to see the Gp,the computer system is down at the surgery so they told me to phone back in the morning! Was really hoping to get him an app before the weekend (you have to wait ages for an app!)



Hope it's all going well with you all :smile:

xxxxxx

Bry

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Friday, July 9th 2010, 12:43pm

Hi

I can't believe you have to wait for an appointment! I was told that babies take priority and have always been given appoinmtnets on the day. Anyway i really hope you've managed to get seen and have some answers.

bigkiss

My Diary - Bry and the Flumps!


1st IVF March 09 :BFP: mm/c at 9 weeks :bawl:
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csam

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Friday, July 9th 2010, 1:12pm

Hi Bry

We got an app for tomorrow morn! I prob could have got one a little earlier but wanted Dh to be around.They are terrible at my surgery though even with children,they don't seem to take priority at all.



Hope you are all ok and you are managing to get some rest!



Had an awful night! I'm really going to try for the 6,10,2 etc feed times,even if it means lots of crying, or we are in such a pickle.but not sure when naps should be? These babies are giving me no clues! Ds has been asleep for 2 hours now and DD2 awake for the last 2 hours :rolleyes: they just don't settle like my older daughter did and it's such hard work!

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Saturday, July 10th 2010, 8:49pm

Hi csam,

I totally get where you're coming from! I had near enough exactly the same situation as you in those early months (without an older sibling though) - I found myself just completely bamboozled by feed times and sleep times. I'm a bit of a stickler for routine I must admit, however, being a complete novice I decided to adopt a flexible sort of routine and be led by the twins.

Mine were fed on demand which was really labour intensive as up until just a few weeks ago they were being fed every 2.5 - 3 hourly during the day. Getting out and about did distract them, but to be honest, in those early days the last thing I felt like doing was going out when what I really needed to do in that spare 10 minutes was have a wee or a bite to eat! I tried to eke out their feed times, but they just weren't having it so I just fed them to save my sanity. One of the girls was hungrier than the other, but to keep them in sync I fed them both at the same time even if it meant one taking more than the other.

Molly did exactly the same as your DS - she thrashed and squealed when it came to (some) feed times. I thought it was colic, so gave her infacol for a while but I just kept forgetting to give it to her before feeds. I didn't put it in her bottle as I knew she wouldn't drink it all and not get the full dose. I really wish I'd have discovered gripe water earlier as since I've discovered this it really seems to help. Molly has just started to thrash around again just at bedtime, but this time we believe it's over-tiredness and maybe a little bit of manipulation to get a cuddle from Daddy...

I would definitely discuss different formulas and reflux - Georgina's taking Gaviscon for reflux (caused by poorly toned oesophageal muscles) and it's really helped her reflux. When mine were tiny, my midwife mentioned Cow and Gate Comfort for colicky/refluxy babies as the formula is thicker and sits in the stomach better. I never tried this for some reason, I think I just wanted to continue with Aptamil.

As for feeding, what I do is feed them both while sitting on the sofa, with a long bean bag pillow draped over my lap. Both girls are comfy and I found I could settle M with one hand if she was being difficult while still feeding G. It does however tie me to the sofa, which probably wouldn't be a good idea with a toddler! What loads of other twin mums do is use 2 bouncy chairs to feed them in, which means you can escape if necessary. I do this more now as mine are also weaning and the weather's hot so I find it better. At first though my two were too small to use the type of bouncers we have - but there are some other brands which would have been ideal.

The timings of their feeds were dependant on when they woke up, and the rest of the day followed. This was my flexible routine!!!. I started weaning at 5 months and was having real problems fitting in solids between milk feeds; after discussing this with the HV she was astonished that I was still feeding so often - but recommended trying 4 hourly with solids after 2 hours - this seems to be working really well at the moment, but means they've gone from 6 to 4 milk feeds a day. If they wake in the night now, I tend to feed them once as they do seem hungrier. After I made the switch I felt really guilty as I thought maybe I'd been feeding them so often for my own sanity rather then them actually needing it. I don't suppose I'll ever know for sure, but my MIL told me not to worry as you should just do what you think is right at the time.

The best piece of advice I was ever given was by my HV who just said to do whatever makes my life easier! I pre-prepared bottles with boiled water in for the day ahead instead of following the recent "rules" and then just added the formula when feed time came. It saved so much faff in my eyes.

Molly would get so grumpy and difficult, it was like she wanted attention for a while then would get frustrated and want to be put down. Occasionally she'd settle on her playmat, but often the only thig that would send her off to sleep was the swing chair on the highest setting! As soon as we tried to sneak it down her eyes would snap open, glare at you, then start screaming :snigger: She's the same now, but due to her hip spica she no longer fits in her swing chair - we're having to rock her vigorously in our arms instead - she will also only settle on her side when we're holding her, but patient relatives with lots of energy to spare have been able to get her off by walking her around for ages!

Naps are hit and miss as G sleeps way more than M during the day, but M sleeps better at night. I haven't got in the routine of putting them in theor cots during the day, although it's something I'm thinking about. At the moment one or both usually nap after feeds for anything from 10 mins to 2 hours - but there is no rhyme nor reason to this so I just let them nap wherever they are.

Housework is also hit and miss! I have recently got some help cleaning once a week which takes the pressure off, but I'm not sure we can afford that for long. For me, a good day is being able to do the sterilising, at least one laundry load and being able to eat lunch. If I've showered I can't tell you how proud of myself I feel :snigger: I just have to prioritise and make the most of every quiet moment. For dinner we're trying to get the girls down earlier as we usually have to do shifts/bolt down food, eat one handed or just listen to whinging. Cooking is a luxury and we're still surviving on easy cook foods most days (filled pasta, tuna pasta bake, pizza and salad etc) but if I have someone round I'll try and do a big chilli or spag bol to keep us going a few days. I would love to cook properly again, but at the moment my priorities are my babies.

I also had quite a lot of help in the early days, most days someone would come round so I could at least have an hours lie down. I can't tell you how helpful this was! Don't be afraid to ask friends/family for help.

I'm not sure if I've been any help at all despite my long post...but if nothing else, you're not doing anything wrong!! It does get easier, I think I hit my worst point at 9 weeks - but just kept focussing on that 12 week mark!! Don't put pressure on yourself to achieve x,y,z - just do what you think is right and enjoy your beautiful children as much as possible.

Lots of love to you all :xxx3:

ETS: OMG I've written an essay!! So sorry!!


Moonshine



csam

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Monday, July 12th 2010, 8:42pm

Moonshine,how lovely are you to send me a long reply,thanks so much :smile: I have a stressed baby to pick up (Dh holding the other stressed baby :rolleyes: ),but I will attempt to reply to your post when I can!



Oh and ahhh at your lovely girlies,I loved it when DD1 was 6months,it was one of my favourite ages I think,they do something new everyday it seems :D

xxxx

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Tuesday, July 13th 2010, 2:17pm

Hello, thought I'd reply, although unfortunately I don't have any helpful advice as I haven't yet tried to get my boys into a routine although I'd like to as the unpredictability is a bit stressful! I'm breastfeeding on demand, although if I have to go out somewhere I feed them just before going. They've just recently started to sometimes go 4 hours between feeds in the day (before every 2-3 hours) and at night it's anything from 4 to 7 hours from feed to feed. It's hard in the hot weather because they want to feed more often. They're pretty easy babies really, but not sure what kind of routine I want to get them into as neither baby whisperer or Tizzie Hall's routines appealed. I think I will attempt a routine soon (they are 3 months old now), but not while the weather is hot.


4x IUI
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Sep 08 ICSI BFN
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Apr 09 ICSI brief BFP
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csam

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Tuesday, July 13th 2010, 6:57pm

Hiya Moonshine

thanks again for your reply,sounds tough feeding as regular as you did/do!and know what you mean,getting out and about is more effort than I have the energy to think about TBH!

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Tuesday, July 13th 2010, 7:13pm

Arrgh,hit submit before I was ready,pressed edit and typed huge reply and lost it all,pants!

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Tuesday, July 13th 2010, 8:28pm

Hiya Claire

well done on BF,I think it really helps settle babies,it certainly did DD1.I really wish I was Bf the twins :sadface:

I don't like things being unpredictable either! With DD1 I was happy for her to dictate the routine,if you are happy to go with the flow a bit longer you will probably find your boy's do this too. I suppose I'm craving a rountine NOW(!)with the twins because they are much harder work than having one,and I have DD1 to think about too.

The feeds will get easier and more routine for you,and they are still young to have a really rigid routine (I don't know why I was expecting to have one myself TBH!),I feel a complete failure when reading the Gina Ford book,is it really that easy to put one baby to bed and then the other 15 mins later? do her babies not cry,need rocking,holding etc???? I keep thinking back to DD1 but she was a different baby and the twins are so much more challenging.

The bit I'm most struggling with is looking after everyone all day and then having to hold one of the twins all evening as they won't settle.2 adults and 2 babies means me and DH are knackered as there is never a time in the eve when we are both not holding them. I'd just like to head off to bed early really I suppose! I shouldn't moan,my mum is brilliant helping me all day but I can't have a lie down in the afternoon as I'd have to leave her with all 3 children which wouldn't be fair. I think what I've realised is that it's just going to take time and I need to be a bit more patient,but honestly if I had more energy(and time)I'd have myself a good old cry! :bawl:

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Wednesday, July 14th 2010, 5:13pm

Just thought I'd add my bit - my girls are now 5 months and we've never really managed a routine but things did start getting easier at 4 months. They have been feeding and sleeping at separate times but just recently I have started a proper 8-9pm bedtime and a nap an hour after breakfast feed and an hour after lunchtime(ish) feed so things are on the up. I have had 2 hours to myself today which has been a treat! I'll be weaning in 4 weeks - scary but exciting too. Time does fly so when things are tough just remember that it's just a phase and you have so much to look forward to x

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Wednesday, July 14th 2010, 8:58pm

But they nap well, sleep 8-9 hours straight at night, and feed very quickly. They can also entertain themselves on play gyms etc.


Call the police!
Someone has kidnapped the Mavettes!
They've been replaced with babies who resist naps, wake up at night and want to PLAY, and keep rolling onto their bellies and into things until they shout to be rescued! :rolleyes:

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Friday, July 16th 2010, 8:16am

I totally agree about the gina ford book! Where are these babies that will just wait their turn! However I hace tried to follow some of the suggested feeding and napping times. Sometimes tho babies will just sleep and feed when they want to and there aint no way you can change their minds!

I have found an evening routine means that we are at least getting a few hours together. We feed them half their bottles, then let them have a naked kick about, followed by a bath then the rest of their bottles then bed. they sleep really well after that. We start at 6ish and they are usually in bed asleep by 7. usually they have to be woken at 10.30 for a feed before another sleep. Still hoping they will sleep beyond 2 but its only happened twice...Might6 be worth trying this? Guess it'll be more difficult because of your toddler... :hugs:

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csam

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Saturday, July 17th 2010, 5:16pm

Thanks Ros for your reply,sounds tough going with your 2 sleeping and feeding at different times,glad it's getting easier now.there is a twin mum at Dd1's nursery and she said the most difficult thing was trying to get her boy's to sleep at the same time.



Lol Mavis,how are the girls now?



Thanks Bry for your bath routine suggestion,Dh has a week off soon so we may try it then.He's sometimes not home until 7 or 8pm and I couldn't manage it on my own.



Things have been slightly better,Ds seems to be feeding better with the Gaviscon in his bottle and I have been putting them upstairs for naps (tried before without success),the first day I did they went straight to sleep for 3 hours! It's been hit and miss since,sometimes both settling,sometimes only one.Have a fractious DD on my lap now and Ds asleep.Evenings been better too,they have both settled for a few hours but Dd starts screaming normally at 9 but i don't think it's hunger as have tried giving her a small feed at 7.30/8( she feeds at 6pm too).Also tried feeding her at 9.30 when the screaming gets to much and she hasn't always had loads,which I thought she might as she'd been screaming for 1/2 hour!



Baby steps and all that!

xxxxx

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Saturday, July 17th 2010, 8:15pm

Sorry I haven't got time to read all the posts - maybe if I had more of a routine...?

But for those of you with older children, one thing we've started to do recently is for OH to take our 3 year old and one twin out for a walk/play as he can't manage all 3 outside (toddler wants to play, then gets too tired to walk and there's no space for him in the pushchair) leaving one twin with me. I can then take her to bed and have a nap, feeding her to sleep as required. Even if I don't sleep, it's bliss only having to deal with onr child!







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Saturday, July 17th 2010, 8:45pm

Hi csam, so pleased to hear things have been a little bit better for you :)

After this thread and speaking to a few other twin mums at my twins group, I've had a different routine for a week and it's working a treat (so far!). The girls are now having 2 naps morning and after lunch up in their cots - I never thought they'd buy it, but they adapted straight away! Sometimes it's only for 20 mins but even so we're heading in the right direction. Also I've moved their bathtime forward to coincide with Molly's natural sleepy time. I now bath her first around 5pm, then G - by the time I've finished with G, M's calmed herself down after a grizzle and is sleepy. I then feed M with no problem at all and put her straight to bed at 5.30pm. G, who tends to nap mid-afternoon tends to stay up a little later until 6.30pm and usually goes down awake and settles herself. I've also been waking them up before I go to bed for another feed, but G is still waking at 3am - I'm going downstairs with her, giving her water and just holding her until she's settled enough to sleep. It doesn't always work, but great when it does!

Today it all went pear shaped (being the weekend!) I didn't get round to baths and feed til 6pm and we had the same problems again. Poor G, I experimented with controlled crying - but it worked after 20 mins and she was fast asleep. Meanwhile DH and I were battling with M - who finally drank enough milk and went to bed awake but with no fuss

I went out with lots of other twin mums yeasterday evening and all of them said routines are great but change often!!


Moonshine



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Saturday, July 17th 2010, 8:53pm

Hiya Roxy



It's funny me and Dh were saying that the other day about taking one baby and our toddler out and leaving one baby at home,makes sense! I think it would help me bond as well as I've found that quite hard this time round.



Moonshine,glad to hear that your tinkering has paid off (but,it does always go to pot at weekend's doesn't it!).i don't need to hear that routines change often! But they did with DD,I could roll with it a bit more when there was only one.



I still can't believe I have twins I think! I think people who have twins are amazing and cope really well,that's why I keep 'forgetting' I have twins because I don't think I'm taking it my stride,it's more about getting through each day!

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Saturday, July 17th 2010, 9:17pm

Oh bless you hun!

I thought getting through each day *was* coping, especially in those early days!! Don't beat yourself up - I am sure you're doing an amazing job but you're just too exhausted to really see it. It's not easy, your babies are still so young and it's too soon to really be thinking about a rigid routine. You will start to find your own pattern and you will find once you start getting a bit more solid sleep the World becomes a bit rosier!!

Do you have a local twins group? Or a member of TAMBA? I'm not a member but I know they offer a helpline should you need advice. If not, I'm sure I speak for many twin mammas on here - if you would like to phone someone for moral support just ask xx


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Saturday, July 17th 2010, 9:25pm

I think people who have twins are amazing and cope really well,that's why I keep 'forgetting' I have twins because I don't think I'm taking it my stride,it's more about getting through each day!


How true!! I think we call our babies "twins" as a safety mechanism. If you think about them as two babies it would freak you out!!

I don't think I've contributed to this thread but I have read it when i can and I think you're all doing a marvellous job :D , particularly those with older children, hats off to you!

I never thought I would be but I am a big fan of routines now. I have to knwo what comes next and when else my day would just be one big mess!!

xxx

csam

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Monday, July 19th 2010, 7:45pm

Lol Duffy,one baby is HARD work,two babies,well that's just madness! I have so much respect for people with twins,I will look back I'm sure and think I did an ok job with 2 babies and a lively toddler (who I'm potty training at the moment!!).



Hiya Moonshine,I have a few twin mummy numbers,there is a twins group,they meet once a month I think but it's during the twins feeding time,so not sure how I'd manage......but I would def like to get out a bit more this time,if that's possible!





Things seem to be much better (hope I'm not talking too soon!),on Saturday we put the twinnies in bed at 7pm and they protested for aggggeeesssss,my poor DD1 was sat calmly in her bed reading her book,probably wishing they would be quiet! Sunday night a few minutes grumbling and tonight I haven't heard anything! Still ate my tea at break neck speed though :rolleyes:



I have been putting them upstairs for their naps too,the morning/lunchtime nap seems to be ok.A bit hit and miss if both babies have the same amount of time etc but with them being upstairs I let them grumble for a lot longer and they do go back to sleep mostly.It means I can get DD1's lunch and spend some time with her.The afternoon nap needs some tinkering as they don't seem to settle that well.I'm not really sure what time to make it TBH.......work in progress there.



They both seem to be having more milk which is great,hope that lasts.Now how do I get them to sleep longer at night!!!!



I really think/hope we have the start of a routine,it's prob a few months earlier than when I had my DD but I feel it's needed with having 3 small children to look after!



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Thursday, August 26th 2010, 10:53am

I'm really struggling at 4 months. I'm exclusively breastfeeding which is the easy bit for me. It's the rest that's a problem!

The girls have suddenly developed "colic" and get really upset at about 6.30pm to 9.30pm ish, with tummy troubles, writhing and thrashing around and farty. I was hoping to start to get them into a bedtime routine putting them down to bed at 7 and getting an evening back - this is what I did with my son. But I'm struggling to do this as their colicky time coincides with son of 3 years' bedtime so his dad is busy with that while I'm left on my own to deal with the crying twins.

Infacol seems to help a little but I'm still lucky to have stopped one of them crying by 8.30 and then possibly the other in bed an hour later. It's a very stressful 3 or 4 hours.

THEN there are the nights! One twin DS2 will go about 5 hours without a feed and her feeding times are roughly 10pm, 2pm and 5pm. DS1 has always been more high maintenance and wants to feed all the time and cries and wakes up the whole house if I don't attend to her. I've always fed on demand and don't mind co-sleeping so at the mo, she's coming in bed with me whilst DS2 is in her cot next to the bed. In the night, I'll sit up to feed DS2 when she wakes and give infacol if needed, DS1, I just feeds on and off in bed with me what feel like hourly (it's difficult to know what time it is as I don't have a back lit clock in the room, but it's a lot!)

Reading your experiences on here has certainly helped me feel less on my own, my friends with singletons just don't get it, but a few tips would help also. I suspect the breastfeeding is making it harder in the sense that the babies don;t sleep so long and no one else can feed them. I've got out of my routine of expressing as we've been camping for a month and I just can't seem to find the time anymore. Maybe I just have to accept that all other life will have to be put on hold?
R x







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csam

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Thursday, August 26th 2010, 11:21am

Hiya Roxy



Firstly [zx127] I managed to get the twins in a routine from about 10 weeks,but I think like you say Bf makes things a lot more difficult.I BF my DD1 for 8 months and it wasn't until she was 7 months that I thought,I'm sure she doesn't need to be fed in the night and is just waking out of habit.But obv she was weaned then,I'm not sure about 4 month old BF babies if it would be ok to 'refuse' them feeds in the night and see if you can break the habit (if it is habit and not hunger)........



Sorry I'm not much help.I never found infacol helpful with DD1,someone suggested gripe water may be better? I think TBH she wasn't a windy baby but I felt I had to whack her back for 5 mins to get a burp out that wasn't there.





I wish I had some helpful advice for you,I suspect with most things you have to ride the storm for now.A routine is fantastic for me but some people like to go with the flow a bit and be more flexible.It is hard when you've got an older child to look after i do sympathise.



Would you entertain using one formula feed a day/night? I know I wouldn't have done with DD1 so I don't want to insult you,I can just imagine how difficult it is for you.



I will pop back later as not much time just now,but PM if you want a chat (tho,I'm guessing you don't have much time on your hands!)



take care

xxxxxxx

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Thursday, August 26th 2010, 1:38pm

Hi Roxy......:hugs: really sorry to hear you're struggling honey....

Maybe I just have to accept that all other life will have to be put on hold?


I used to think like that and I don't think it's a bad thing. It will get better as I'm sure you know deep down but there are times (and 4 months was when I was pretty down) when you just can't see any end to night time feeds or babies being grizzly grumpy creatures. There's no harm in just accepting that for now, you've just got to get by however you can and take each day as it comes and as Csam said....

,I suspect with most things you have to ride the storm for now.


My two were very unhappy in the evenings but only in the first few weeks. We too used infacol - it certainly helped get some big burps out of them but then they were bottle fed so naturally took in more air than bf babies. I also got some good advice from my mw before I was discharged about just rubbing babies' tummies, perhaps before bath time. Have you done any baby massage? The simplest technique to help windy babies, is clockwise circles with 2/3 fingers (x 8) gently around the belly buttonn (must be clockwise to follow the digestive system) and then stroke the baby's tummy from top to bottom with the sides of alternate hands, then gently push the knees together and up towards the chest and hold for a few seconds (they often fart!) and repeat the whole process as much as you like. It's good for constipation, wind problems, the lot. Use a little olive oil.

Also my mw said for infacol to be most effective, give them a dose 10/15 mins before a feed. Not always easy in the night but perhaps try in the day if you know what time they feed. The key really with giving infacol is to do it before every feed as it has a cumulative effect.

I know my two really enjoyed naked time which is when I do baby massage around 5-5.30 followed by a nice bath and then a feed around 6-6.30 and then bed by 7. They didn't take to it straight away but caught on fairly quickly that this meant bedtime.

Another thing (!) is I often laid my babies on their tummies in the early days (though not at night obviously) and they always drifted off to sleep in this position rather than flat on their backs. doesn't help the evenings but perhaps a little tummy time in the day may help ease the evening problems? Just a thought.

Do you/have you use /d dummies? this may help with DS1 at night and it may only be temporary? I used them from about 3 weeks and did use them at night on and off for about 4 months. They don't need them now as my DD often finds her thumb and DS hardly ever cries these days! i wouldn't have thought this could happen even 2 months ago!

As far as Csam's suggestion of perhaps introducing one formula feed, this would certainly fill them up for longer if you gave it say at the last feed but if you do think about doing this, I'd probably start in the morning and introduce it slowly over a short period of time as if they've been solely bf for 4 months, it will take their little tums a while to adapt. My two were a mixture of breast and bottle from about 1 week, and I do feel it really worked well. Fattening out with formula but getting the goodness of breast! Do they feed well in the day? If formula isn't an option and that's absolutely fine, I know you said you're not expressing any more but maybe it could be worth starting again? If you could express enough for one feed, say maybe the dream feed or even the middle of the night, perhaps your DH could do one and you could have a proper rest?

Anyway honey, I really do feel for you as it can be very miserable feeling this way and with exhaustion too everything feels 10 x worse. Just as you say, put your life on hold, take each day one by one and you will find things will improve as the babies get older and the tummies more mature!

Best of luck hon and I do hope it gets easier for you really soon.

xxx


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csam

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Thursday, August 26th 2010, 8:38pm

Hi again Roxy

Glad Duffy popped along with some useful advice for you :smile:

I know you'll know from having your Ds that most things are phases,it just seems at the time that things will never change or get better/easier. I have 2 teenage step children,you can imagine our house whirlwind toddler,moody teenagers and 2 tiny babies :8o: all having their own 'phases'!!

It won't be too long before you start weaning and hopefully the feeding will settle down but in the mean time like Duffy say's take one day at a time,and OMG you've been camping with 3 small people in tow,I think you are amazing! Is there any one who can pop round for a few hours in the eve to give you a bit of break,things are always worse in the eve when you've had a londgday with the children.



Take care and it really will improve soon,when I started the routine I did one thing at a time and it all then fell into place,if the eve's are difficult then try and make things easier for yourself at other times of the day until things calm down .



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Saturday, August 28th 2010, 12:25pm

Thanks for your replies ladies. Really helpful suggestions, all of them.

It's amazing what a few hours more solid sleep can do for my mood too. Last night, they woke at 1 pm, after being put down at 9 pm and then, once back on the feeding pillow, slept til around 7 pm! I felt so good, I even let DP stay in bed til 9 whilst I gave our 3 year old breakfast. He said he didn't feel any better, but was grateful for the gesture :)

We're still getting back to normal after camping which was great fun but has taken it's toll in terms of our routine (if you could call it that).


We've now decided that we need to: make sure we're home for no later than 4pm so tea is on the table for 5pm and I can start the babies bedtime routine at 6pm and hopefully be into it and perhaps have got one to sleep by 7pm when my DP goes off to put our son to bed. Have to go now as babies awake but I'll keep you posted.

Thanks again. lovelies!







Me 41, DP 42
Diagnosis PCOS and old age!
DS 11/06 (clomid)
Mm/c of natural pg 03/08
1st IVF 02/09 (ectopic)
FET 08/09 :BFP:
cs booked for 20/04/10




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