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  • "victoria82" is no longer a member of FZ
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Monday, January 29th 2007, 8:54pm

SHOULD GAY COUPLES BE ALLOWED TO ADOPT?

i thought i might start a some sort of debate to live up this part of forum

some of my work colleuage who are social worker that work in the department of children where having a debate about if it is right for two gay couple to adopt a child?

it was quite a heavy and an interesting discussion and i thought i will see what you all opinion is about this

what do you think about this? do you think it is right or wrong? what will you do?

my own concern will be the child emotional and mental state if you get what i mean.

what is you all opinoin? this is a debate no right or wrong answer, just for us all to say what we think

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Monday, January 29th 2007, 8:59pm

I'm undecided, part of me thinks if they can offer a warm and loving home to a child who would otherwise recieve none then yes go for it. But another pa\rt of me thinks a child needs to be brought up in the socially accepted "norm" with a mother and a father so that they are able to understand the different sexes and know "normality". xxx
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Monday, January 29th 2007, 9:13pm

I would rather a child had a loving hime, ANY loving home, than be in care or in a temporary home during those precious childhood years.

I don't have any reservations about same sex couples having children as long as the same stringent checks are done which already apply to mixed sex couples.

Enough biological children of gay and lesbian parents exist and if anything they probably grow up more rounded and with less prejudice. As long as the number of unwanted children outnumber the amount of responsible adults I think that we should be searching for caring parents regardless of who those parents choose who to have sex with.





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Monday, January 29th 2007, 9:23pm

But do you think it puts the child in a confusing situation, and puts them more at risk of bullying?? And would a very young child find it hard to understand basic facts of life?? xxx
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Monday, January 29th 2007, 9:36pm

that is what i was thinking too Diddle, the child is more at risk of bullying at school

and i think a child need a father and mother to help in shaping who they are and how they need to behave in society, either been a man or a woman

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Monday, January 29th 2007, 9:55pm

this is a difficult one, i have a freind who was married and had two children when i met her, it is now 3 years on and the children are 4 and 5 and their mother is now in a same sex relationship and is devorced from her husband. .......i dont see how children being adopted by gay couples could be much different to this, i see it that children need love care and understanding, i think same sex parents could give a child this, BUT i do think that some bullying might occur because of it at school. i agree with bells that it could create a more rounded and understanding less prejudice child maybe, but could it have the other affect too? could the situation make the child resent their parents?

ohhhhhh! victoria! ?( :)) this is good!
ill think some more xxx

kerry xxx



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Monday, January 29th 2007, 10:06pm

Yes in an ideal world a child needs parents of both sexes, but there are plenty of healthy happy families around the country who have only one parent for many different reasons such as a death or divorce, and the child grows up to be well grounded and happy.

I believe most children get bullied for one thing or another at school wether being too thin or too fat or the hair colour and so on, and although the severity of bullying is marginally different for all children, I would not like to be the child being bullied for my parents being of the same sex, I also agree that the child will/should 'deal' with the bulling. I was bullied for coming from a one parent family and it is something that has to be dealt with by the school, parent and the children involved.

Does it matter what sexual orientation the parent has, if that parent can provided a warm stable loving and happy life/home for a child, I personally don't think so.

I believe it is discrimination.

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Monday, January 29th 2007, 10:07pm

If a child is going to get bullied it will get bullied. Glasses, gappy teeth, scruffy clothes, not having the latest trainers, ginger hair, swot.... etc.

I don't know that it affects sex education; you teach your child that men and women make babies together but some men love other men and some women love other women. That's what I've always hinted to my daughter and it wouldn't change if I was in a same sex relationship.

Some children are brought up by single parents and do very well, problems tend not to arise from having only a single sex parent but from only having ONE parent who may be juggling work, home and children on one income.

I can see that there would be some issues arising from the child being seen as different in some way [by their school pals] but is something we should shy away from or confront? If we had all grown up with friends who had same sex parents would we see it as such a huge thing? IMO if children see a situation all the time and are allowed to ask questions then that situation becomes normal and they just get on with it.





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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 12:40am

thats true. I have no problem with it at all. if a child is lucky enough to have 2 people who love them then it shouldnt matter if those 2 people are the same sex or not. as with anything that not the norm there will be bullying of some form but thats then up to the schools to monitor this. I remember when my parents got divorced in the 80's and i used to get teased. but as it happened more and more this died down. Jo


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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 2:12am

I think the world is starting to accept same sex couples & as soon as the adults do the children will follow.

Have you guys seen the little clip – ‘children see children do’? Rather sad but very true:
http://www.childfriendly.org.au/streaming1.htm

I know not directly related to this topic but as I say its true – Kids follow our lead do as they see & behaviour as we do (most of the time lol)

A child needs love not thrown into a care system that doesn’t care for much more than a salary & alternative shift patterns I would rather see a child loved than face ‘that system’ it’s not the nicest life to have – I’ve been there.
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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 8:05am

Very difficult one ...

especially as my own sister is gay

when growing up as a child, gay people were still not accepted generally in society and my entire family was terrified of people finding out in case of any backlash from our neighbourhood who pretty much had very old-fashioned values

i know for a fact that i would have been bullied very badly at school if anyone had found out - yes I was bullied anyway due to being shy but believe me there were a lot of very anti-gay families where I grew up

over the years attitudes have thankfully changed and I am no longer worried about anyone knowing my sister is gay - it's her way of life and, although I cannot personally relate to it, I do accept it and get on very well with her partner

if they wanted to adopt I think they would make very good parents

as long as gay people go through exactly the same adoption process as any other couple and are judged on an individual basis

I still think the children may get bullied at school but i guess that's a different issue to be dealt with


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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 8:34am

most definitely yes.....simple as...no debate needed.....so long as both are good parents then there is no problem :))

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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 9:19am

I am sure that lots of gay parents are better parents than a 13 year child getting knocked up whilst out boozing.

I am def for adopion!
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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 9:20am

as Bells says - a child needs a loving home, whether one or two parents, same sex or not. but I do think it is in the best interest of the child that as they mature as a teenager that there is someone of the opposite sex to the parent(s) who could act as a mentor and a different type of role model, but they dont have to be a "parent" to the child.

however - i do think the state is wrong to ban private agencies from choosing not to adopt to gay couples. my great-aunt (yes, the sister of my grandfather) is 72 and has been in a same-sex relationship with a divorcee for 30+ years looking after two girls. this couple actually converted from catholicism to methodist because catholics do not approve of homosexual relationships. in all honesty I cant imagine any gay couple saying they are catholic AND in a gay relationship - the catholic church is not that liberal. and all this ban does is result in the closing of some wonderful private adoption agencies that place the unborn child of a catholic unmarried woman with a catholic couple who can not have children (you know the catholic church does not permit fertility treatment such as IVF or ICSI?). that is incredibly sad to me. the couple would help the woman through the pregnancy, and the child would grow up knowing their parents and their birth mother (if that is what both parties wanted).

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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 9:24am

although sunshine thats a complete generalisation though.....i know loads of catholics who've done fertility treatment....surely you mean the elders of the church think this and not all catholics.... ?(

oh no another debate :rolleyes:

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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 9:54am

I'm really surpised this became an issue the way it has. it is perfectly legal for gay couples to adopt and most LA's probably welcome them with open arms. Children waiting for a "forever family" have such a wide range of needs, a wide range of families is needed!

for example, a child who has had extremely negative experiences with men- very traumatic ones, may be better placed with a female same sex couple, or a single female adopter.

A couple of years back an adoption programme (UK based) feautred a young lad who still had strong ties to his birth mother (he was about seven or eight i think- maybe even nine) and his birth mother was against the adoption idea even though there was no way she could parent him. The young lad was adopted my a male couple and it was just perfect- he could still have bi-annual direct contact with his birth mother, but attach to and accept the love and support and stability his adoptive parents had to offer, without feeling he was letting anyone down (it seemed if you read between the lines he would have had serious difficulties attaching to another mother figue).

adoption is about the childs needs, and when things like this get sensationalised in the media i think that is often forgotten. Any baby reliquished for adoption by its birth mother, well the birth mother basically gets to choose which adopters have the child. So if it is vital to them the child has a mum and dad thats what they will have.

I'm not trying to be stereotypical here but a lot of same sex couples have experience of inequality, bullying, being "different" and might be more accepting of some background issues or developmental issues than others. So much of your home assessment is based on your life experience, how this has shaped who you are and influences what you have to offer a child.

anyway, back to what is in the press, I haven't taken too much interest but I am guessing its the Catholic childrens society (a private adoption agency) that are under the spotlight. It is worth noting that they do not have a big pool of children waiting to be adopted- they process adopters themselves then are predominately used by local authorities to see if they have a suitable placement for children the local authority cannot place within its own resources, and then recieve a fee for this (its a last resort using private agencies as it costs the local authority a lot of money). so, other than a few children relinquished for adoption whose parents are catholic, and want their child to be placed with a catholic family therefore go to the society themselves, they effectivley provide a service to local authorities offering suitable couples for children on the national adoption register (hard to place)

I don't see why couples who the CCS find unacceptable don't just go to their local authority, or barnadoes, or futures for childre, or the childrens society. As much as i find cathlocism hard to take, they are a Catholic agency, therefore I would see they couldn't be impartial and approve or support an adoptive family who were gay anyway- If i was in a same sex relationship, Id be steering well clear of an agency that doesn't support or believe in or condone my relationship- it would just be too much hard work- at the end of the day I would want to be approved as smoothly as possible not make things difficult for myself! so why does't everyone just get on with what it is all about- providing families for children who need them?
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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 10:00am

Quoted

Originally posted by Bells
I would rather a child had a loving hime, ANY loving home, than be in care or in a temporary home during those precious childhood years.

I don't have any reservations about same sex couples having children as long as the same stringent checks are done which already apply to mixed sex couples.

Enough biological children of gay and lesbian parents exist and if anything they probably grow up more rounded and with less prejudice. As long as the number of unwanted children outnumber the amount of responsible adults I think that we should be searching for caring parents regardless of who those parents choose who to have sex with.


As so often Bells, thats exactly what I wanted to say but would have waffled for ages to get the point across.





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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 10:50am

IRISH - I do, because I am also "technically" a Catholic, but I know personally of plenty of Catholics who have refused fertility treatment because the Church teaches them that it is interfering with God's will. Similarly I dont go to confession either, and I have used contraception....

So, no, not all Catholics. And please re-read caarefully what I said.....

Quoted

you know the catholic church does not permit fertility treatment such as IVF or ICSI?
I didnt actually say that all catholics follow this! :)

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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 10:51am

a loving home is a loving home regardless of if there is a married couple, single parent or a gay couple.

I believe the child would grow up socially accepting.







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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 2:36pm

I see i am the odd one out here!!! Ooooh i love a good debate. I agree a same sex home would be better than no home, but i still feel that ALWAYS if possible the child should be placed in hetrosexual home. I have no problems with same sex relationships, but i do feel that children who are brought up in this MAY end up with social problems. xxx
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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 3:58pm

Quoted

Originally posted by Sunshine
IRISH - I do, because I am also "technically" a Catholic, but I know personally of plenty of Catholics who have refused fertility treatment because the Church teaches them that it is interfering with God's will. Similarly I dont go to confession either, and I have used contraception....

So, no, not all Catholics. And please re-read caarefully what I said.....

Quoted

you know the catholic church does not permit fertility treatment such as IVF or ICSI?
I didnt actually say that all catholics follow this! :)


fair enough but i also know alot who have dismissed this too.....not every catholic would take religion as far as that :)

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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 4:29pm

i too dont have a problem with gay couples at all,

but i believe that in the begining there was a man and a woman :(

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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 6:18pm

clare I think you actually see things the way most social workers would- but there are always children with needs that are met better in different ways- like the circumstances i was referring to. ultimately, just because a couple, or individual, are approved to adopt does not ensure them a placement. for each child, it is the child's social workers who decide on the best placement for them, and i guess in most circumstances this would be a mum and dad, but for some children it would be in their interest to have a different arrangement.
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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 6:24pm

Oh yes veg i agree each child should be looked at differently and in regards to their own needs, i just think 99% of the time mum and dad would be best :D
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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 7:23pm

Ohhh can i chime in here. I can see all sides, my BIL is gay, was married for 7 years had a son then decided it was the wrong thing, mum left home and the child was brought up by dad and his DP. He is the most well rounded, polite, caring and tidy young man i know, he isnt a yob, he has a girl friend and is a young man now with a level head (he is 23 now) He is proof that children brought up in same sex relationships can work.

But we also have a child in nursery who is from a same sex couple and already i have had to talk to 2 members of staff for their comments they have passed so i can see how the child could potentially be bullied if adults (both in their 50's so could be seen as some of the last of that unacepting age group) like them have anything to do with it (the comments were just in jest but i had to deal with it, we are there to provide the best care for the children not to judge the parents)

As to my view i am not really sure if i am honest, i am pulling towards not agreeing with same sex couples but i feel that is just because of the way i was brought up, i never had to think about it before or question my own feeling on it.

I can see as it happens more and more it will become the norm.
I cant see why they couldnt adopt, why should they not be allowed to adopt? What wouldnt they be able to offer a child? I am still not sure lol (if you hadnt noticed i like to sit on the fence a lot as to this day i still dont know what my own opinion is! lol)
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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 8:03pm

I feel a bit wick - but I am against it. I am not trying to criticise anyone. I just think it is not the best role model - neither is someone who is hetrosexual and beats up the wife - or many other situations. I just wouldn't want it. Is that awful to say?

As to the chool thing, I teach a 7 year old whose mother was in a v abusive relationship and is now living with a woamn - in a relationship. This boy hates women nad is so embarrassed when she picks him up from school - he won't even look at her. The other children don't tease him - maybe they've not noticed yet. But he honestly hates it.

Please don't take this as a personal judgement on anyone xxx
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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 8:24pm

I believe that all children need parents (or at least one) be they one of each gender or two of the same. If they are loved and cared for what difference does the parents sexual orientation make. Being parented by a heterosexual couple has not stopped children growing up and going into same sex relationships and I doubt that being parented by same sex parents will prevent them from being heterosexual if that is what they are destined to be.
The idea that the child may be bullied over his parents' sexual orientation makes me really mad because surely it is the JOB of ALL parents to teach their children tolerance and acceptance. Kids get bullied for all kinds of stupid reasons and the fear of bullying for this reason should not be a bar to adoption.
If it is a bar then we should say: well then no inter-racial adoption should be allowed, nor single parent adoptions either because those children will be bullied just as much as those of same sex parents just because they are different...

(I'm not even sure I am making sense anymore, but hopefully you all know what I am trying to say...)


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Tuesday, January 30th 2007, 8:34pm

I don't really think it has all that much to do with being bullied it's more to do with them being brought up by a mum and dad, in the way that nature intended. I personally feel that a child brought up by a single parent would be better. I do not worry that the child will end up gay, i don't think that can be decided. What i do worry about is the child understanding hetrosexual relationships, and the input of both a male and a female, i feel it does have bearing on a child. I will of course educate my children that there are couples who chose to love people of the same sex, i will be telling them that this is the couples choice. xxx
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Wednesday, January 31st 2007, 9:47am

I think that as long as the couple are the right couple it shouldnt matter whether they are straight or gay.

My only concern would be how the child and her school friends (as we all know kids can be cruel) would accept it.

But I don't think a gay couple should be treated differently to a straight couple!



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Wednesday, January 31st 2007, 10:46am

I think children should have role models from each gender with out a doubt. I dont believe that this has to be their parents. Im not even sure that i agree with the way nature intended issue either because if it was left down to that i wouldnt be a parent today!! Basically the issue here is US as adults either parents, aunties uncles cousins god parents or whatever. Its up to us to make sure that the children who we know or care for understand that we dont see any difference between same sex relationships. Attitudes are slow to change and what we believe now is in the main part what we were taught as children..


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Wednesday, January 31st 2007, 11:03am

Oh can i join..

If a same sex couple can offer a loving home to a child then it is just as good and any hetrosexual couple caring for it.

I know we're talking about adoption here but its stil a matter of how the child grows up and looks at life, so im in a same sex relationship and pregnant, i dont feel for one second my child will grow up any different than another child, my dad is also gay and so is my uncle.. i have grown up to be a very well grounded, polite and happy person. I was bullied yes.. but most children are for something or other, it makes you a stronger person. i didnt grow up confused about the role of a man and woman, i understood perfectly thats what you would call the 'norm' and that my dad was different. Being brought up with my dad being gay had nothing to do with my own sexulaity.

I can honestly say growing up in this situation has made me a better person, im not prejudice at all and i repesct my parents for who they are, unlike alot of children these days.

So why would it be wrong to put a child in this kind of home, where they would get all the love and caring that any straight couple can offer, aswell as growing up understanding that every one is different and you cant judge people for what they look like or who they choose to be with. At the end of the day all these children need is stability and aslong as they can offer that along with love they are the perfect parents..

Simone xxx
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "shorty" (Jan 31st 2007, 11:04am)


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Wednesday, January 31st 2007, 11:15am

Rufus - I wonder if the boy in your example would simply have hated any new partner of his mothers, whether male or female?

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Wednesday, January 31st 2007, 11:38am

i thought that too.. x


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Wednesday, January 31st 2007, 1:25pm

I also wonder if that boy has learnt from his father that abusing women is the right thing to do. Personally, maybe some distance from such aggressive role models would do the boy good in the long term, particularly if female teachers have problems with him too.

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Wednesday, January 31st 2007, 1:57pm

Maybe - I honestly am not trying to be intolerant, it's just my own opinion x

I didn't say that the bullying was enough of a reason to not do it. I just feel comfortable with the whole thing. And i know I must be in the minority - but I did think it was ok to have a different opinion...
Keep smiling :happy:

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rufus" (Jan 31st 2007, 2:08pm)


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Wednesday, January 31st 2007, 3:11pm

lesa of course its ok to have a different opinion how boring would we all be if we agreed with each other all the time :))

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Wednesday, January 31st 2007, 11:44pm

course its ok to have a different opinion.


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Wednesday, January 31st 2007, 11:59pm

i also dont like the idea of kids growing up thinking that men are ment to go with men and women with women but i think the loving home a gay couple can give a homeless child is far better then teens getting knocked up and getting a house just for that reason ect
or aborting the pg or giving the baby up and making more homeless kids

i am going with them being able to adopt and like everyone else only if they do everything exactly the same as they do for straights adopting











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Thursday, February 1st 2007, 10:36am

I still disagree!!!! My opinion is if a child is in the predicament that it needs new parents, then surely it has been through enough trauma in it's life without having to deal with understanding a proably totally unfamiliar situation? I am NOT TOTALLY against it, i just feel that most kids need a mum and a dad. I am sure that kids can lead a totally normal life having been brought up gay parents, i just think that it takes a man and a woman to make a baby so it should be a man and a woman who raise that child. xxx
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Thursday, February 1st 2007, 12:03pm

HERE HERE DIDDLE

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Thursday, February 1st 2007, 12:08pm

I am not sure on this one but do tend to be a bit more that it shld not happen as its confusing for the child but on the other hand a loving home is what they need - and have heard that gay couples get priroity now for adoption courses etc and thats why I and some others on the course I was on did not get on a earlier one because they put gay couples through to up the stats

As you say everyone is entitled to thier opinion


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Thursday, February 1st 2007, 1:14pm

but the next step surely in saying that gay couples cant adopt because you can only be a parent if you are a mum & dad couple is to stop single mothers from having children, and stop gay couples from having children.

I guess that makes more children for the adoption agencies, but quite frankly I find such discrimination scary in the precedents that it sets.

Personally, as I & others have said, if a private agency wants to ban gay couples then that private agency has every right to, and gay couples would know this. However, there should not be a ban on gay couples adopting. I think that is wrong.

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Thursday, February 1st 2007, 1:30pm

No i don't think there should be a ban, but i do feel it should be as a last resort only. Oh and just to add i would rather a child be brought up by a single parent than a gay couple. xx
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Thursday, February 1st 2007, 1:44pm

ok, well I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

I think any (loving) couple (in a healthy respectful relationship) is better than a single because one parent can support the other parent when needed

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Thursday, February 1st 2007, 1:48pm

Defo gonna have to agree to disagree :D :D


Still luv u though!!! xxx
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IRISH

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Thursday, February 1st 2007, 1:49pm

most single people bring up their children equally as well as a couple....my mum had to when my dad died....sometimes there is simply no choice.....a couple isnt better than a single person just different

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Thursday, February 1st 2007, 1:52pm

I agree IRISH, My mum is single handidly (is that a word?) raising my neice (her mum died) and doing a fine job of it too!!! xxx
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Thursday, February 1st 2007, 5:02pm

i think having a mum and dad is better then having just one parent.

i was one of 9 and dad died when i was only 5, imagine how it felt like when mum had to bring all 9 of us up. but she did a great job.

but now we all wished that dad was here too when we where young to have help mum, and believed that if dad was here we all would have done more better for ourself. only my older brother had the chance to have dad and mum there while he become an adulthood before dad died and boy was he not happy with himself now. he is totally a different person to the rest of us.

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Thursday, February 1st 2007, 10:04pm

Gay men and women dont choose to be gay, its just the way they are.. and just because they are gay doesnt mean they dont want children. A gay woman has the same maternal feelings as a straight woman, so why should they be banned from or made last resort to adopt a child.. If for any reason they cant have children of there own making adoption difficult for them is saying they have less of a right to have children than straight people do because of something they cant help or change, when the love they can offer is exactly the same..

I understand people have there own opinion on things and this is fair enough i respect that but i just want those people to think how they would feel if they were told they couldnt have what they wanted more than anything because of something they have no choice over, knowing they could offer the same as anyone else could..

Simone
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Thursday, February 1st 2007, 11:03pm

I totally agree Simone!




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